Results 141 - 160 of 239
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Results from: Notes Author: djconklin Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25556 | ||
Tim, My thanks to you for a Biblical answer. However, there are a number of flaws in your argument. ") The Greek word for Sabbath ('Sabbaton') is used interchangebly in both the singular and the plural. The word is used 68 times in the New Testament, and only once does it refer to more than one Sabbath (Acts 17:2)." Hey, you actually got the count right! There's a number fo sources that don't. What you should have also looked at is how the word "sabbaton" is also used in the NT to refer to the first day of the week (i.e., just because the same word is used x number of times that doesn't mean that it only means one thing. It can refer to other things. As such therefore, your conclusion: "This is conclusive proof that the Sabbath referred to in Col. 2:16 is the weekly Sabbath." is very premature. Let's look at all of the available evidence first. Another flaw here is that you only looked at the NT; try looking at this word and the other related words (In this case "heorte") in the LXX. As you can see in my study (http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/216c.html and http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/216d.html) I really wrestled with what is going on here. "2) The second proof that the weekly Sabbath is referred to in Col. 2:16 is the fact that this list is taken from Num. 28 and 29. In these two chapters, we find the exact same issues dealt with as Paul deals with in Col. 2 - Yearly festivals, monthly feasts, and weekly Sabbaths." I'm going to cheat here and simply cut-and-paste a paragraph frommy study: " A thought occurred to me as I progressed in this study that perhaps it is our "Greek," or Western, minds which see this phrase "an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" as "denoting a time-progression."6 But, what if it isn't a "time-progression" per se but is rather a listing of ceremonial days? As Dunn has observed: "the three terms together, "sabbaths, new moons, and feasts" was in fact a regular way of speaking of the main festivals of Jewish religion."7 Bacchiocchi suggests that it is both a time sequence and a listing of festivals.8 Then when the two points above are tied together then what we have in vs. 16 is a listing: the feasts, the new moon and the sabbatical days of the feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. To me this is the only option that answers all the objections given above and below." Also the clincher that Paul isn't refrring directly to the days themselves (they are a sub-clause that he could have left out): for more details see http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/216b.html |
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142 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25640 | ||
"Perhaps your 'answers' go so far beyond the questions that we don't know what you are trying to say." Actually it is the other way around. I'm looking solely at the grammatical and linguistic evidence in the text itself and others want me to jump way eyond that while they ignore the work that it takes to even get off the ground (which is what I'm doing). |
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143 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25642 | ||
"...give those who discourage your faith to the Father, He knows how to help them." I do; but, it doesn't seem to do any good. |
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144 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25647 | ||
You have obvious confused an implication with a declaration. I didn't. There are two distinct advantages of going to graduate school: one, is that you learn to read very carefully and the second is that you don't make assumptions too quickly (actually you learn to assume that you don't know enough to go spouting off till you've done the research--maybe we could call that the third advantage). On the last point, one of my prof's said that by time he finished his doctorate he couldn't believe how ignorant he was in his own field! I remarked to one my fellow students how sharp our prof's were and he replied tha they had just read more than we had. Which is quite true and by digging deep you can actually be sharper than your prof's! Simple because you have dug deeper into a very small field as compared to the work they did. I found that I usually got good grades when I handed in a study with a long bibliography (like the 15 page study on the theology of one OT book (I picked Jonah)--the bibliography was 15 pages long--they were quite impressed with the work I had done. | ||||||
145 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25652 | ||
Steve, you did misunderstand; I was saying the oppisite. The Day of Atonement and the feast of Trumpets (an oxymoron on the latter) are not feast days. Thus, they would not have been under the term "heorte" (feast; "holyday" at Col. 2:16 in the KJV and only in this place!). So, the only other place they could be is under "sabbatwn" for they were ceremonial sabbaths (Lev. 23:2, 4, 24, 32) | ||||||
146 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25654 | ||
Joe, You are correct. Jesus never violated the Law for if he had He would not have been a sinless sacrifice for our sins. He did in fact ignore and, as you put it, "thumb His nose" at the rabbinical man-made rules. |
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147 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25658 | ||
Very good! You are actually testing various interpretations! You suggested: "let no man judge you in [the singular event of] eating, drinking, a festival i.e. new moon, sabbath" The only problem here is that you dropped out two items: one, the fitrst "eta" should be translated as "either" and secondly, the the meaning of the Greek "en merei". It means "in part of" as I point out in my study. If I were to re-translate/interpret the Greek of Col.2:16-17 into today's English and take into account all of the available evidence I'd suggest this: "Let no man therefore judge you in your feasting and fasting on the feast days, or the new moons, or the ceremonial sabbath days: 17 These (i.e., the feasting and fasting) are a shadow of things to come; rather let the Church decide such matters." |
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148 | Who are 'others?' | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25659 | ||
Another day and another three emails saying they are not having any trouble understanding what I am saying. And yet I'm continually being told here that some are. Why is that? In my first sermon out of the seminary I told the congregation that if I could do it (in that case it was an exegesis) they could to. It's not all that hard people. Just put one foot in front of the other and don't go any faster than what you have understood--instead of trying to run a 3 minute mile. | ||||||
149 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25661 | ||
"He was even rejected and casted out of his own temple, until he met John the Baptist." If that is what the author said he/she is mistaken. Jesus began His ministry by being baptized by John the Baptist; later he was cast out of the local synagogue in Nazareth. He was never cast out of the Temple. The rest was good. |
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150 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25663 | ||
" I've been to county fairs, estate sales, picnics, and cattle auctions; and I've yet to find a monument erected in honor of a critic." You probably wouldn't find them there. But, there's a museum to Ingersoll: http://www.secularhumanism.org/ingersoll/ But, we always get the Bible critics by pointing out that there was never been a hospital or orphange named after one of them. |
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151 | djconklin, Worship on Sabbath in Bible? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25673 | ||
In the Hebrew the word for "convocation is "migra" and means "sacred assembly"; the LXX translates it as "holy calling". | ||||||
152 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25689 | ||
1) This question is answered at http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/217b.html 2) This question is answered at http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/217d.html |
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153 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25690 | ||
Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. |
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154 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25691 | ||
Yeah, they did. Then there's the memorial to Jefferson who ripped out the miraculous from his Bible. | ||||||
155 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25692 | ||
Tim, The "trick" here in Lev. 23 is to note that vs 3 is sandwiched between vss 2 and 4 with distinct differences in each. The latter is the proper intro to the chapter. There's an article in Biblitheca Sacra published by the Dallas Theological Seminary in which an author looks closely at Israel's Annual Feasts. If you search on the ATLA Religious Index under the three words: "Israel's Annual Feasts" you should be able to find it. The point of the chapter is that each of these days are to be treatd as sabbaths and to derive their meaning and value from the seventh-day Sabbath. Now, within Lev. 23 there are other clues as well. In vss 2, 4, 37, 39, 41 the Hebrew word for "feast" is "mow'ed" ("appointed time" or "sacred season" would be a better translation so as to not get confused) ; but in vss 6, 34, 44 it is "chaq" ("feast" or "festival"). So, in the Hebrew a very clear distinction is made which doesn't show up in an English translation (btw, which one are you using? More difficult to search for the words yours used if the KJV didn't.). |
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156 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25701 | ||
Tim, Thanks for the quick response! Thank you also for actually looking at the pages to which I referred you to. You'd be amazed at the sheer number of people who wish to argue but never look at the evidence. On number one you seem to making more distinctions than are warranted. Paul uses the plural simply because he is referring to more than one thing. Secondly, the days that are mentioned in vs. 16 can be thought of as a sub-clause which he could have left out and his original audience would have known what he was talking about. Thirdly, it causes more problems than it is worth to assume that Paul was only referring to "sabbatwn": is he talking about the seventh-day Sabbath? If so, where in the OT is it given as a symbol of something to come? If it is the ceremonial sabbaths then what does that say about the other two (feasts and new moons)? The answer to number two is not based on assumptions; Troy Martin's study pays attention to the grammatical construction of the passage. Assumptions do come into play when it is assumed that Paul is playing off "shadow" with "body". |
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157 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25707 | ||
Tim, "'mow'ed' is used in: vv. 2, 4, 37, and 44." "Mow'ed" means "appointed time" or "sacred season" not feast. So, the chapter opens and closes on that note. But, within the chapter, and elsewhere as well, in the OT a very careful distinction is made between a "mo'ed" and a "chaq" which also happens to show up in the Greek. I checked some 300 verses (don't remember the exact count) and found that neither the Day of Atonement or the feast of Trumpets was called a "heorte" and then I look at what the Hebrew counterpart of those verses said as well. What Bible software do you use? I'm using Bibleworks 4.0 right now and would like to get the newest version that just came out (along with about 1,000 dollars of CD's: commentaries and lexicons--checkout the software available from CBD when you get a chance!). |
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158 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25708 | ||
"I would disagree that the last three nouns are a sub-clause." This is because of the meaning of "e en merei"; check it out: http://biblestudy.iwarp.com/colossians/216b.html --- "Grammatically, I think the best option is that 'de' contrast the body with the shadow." Then write it up and submit it to Journal of Biblical Literature and see what they say when they review it. Here's what Troy Martin said: "The construction of [me oun tis umas krinetow ... to de soma tou kristou] is an antithesis. The negative member is stated first; the contrasting positive member introduced by an adversative conjunction occurs second. ... The verb [krineto] determines the action that is forbidden by the first member and then enjoined by the second member of this antithesis. ... The prohibition in the first clause of the antithesis in Col 2:16 indicates that the nuance of [krineto] is negative. ... However, the action enjoined by the second clause requires a positive nuance. ... An example of precisely this combination of nuances occurs in the antithesis in Rom 14:13 ...." [ "But Let Everyone Discern the Body of Christ (Colossians 2:17)," Journal of Biblical Literature 114/2 (1995): 252-3] |
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159 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25711 | ||
"upon the nailing to the cross as stated in Col 2:14" The "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" refers to the sacrifical ceremonial law. The Ten commandments are holy, just and good and were ordained to life but because of our sins condemns us. Without them we wouldn't know how we sin. In short, the Sabbath wasn't nailed to the cross. |
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160 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25747 | ||
Ah, so that's what all the email encouraging me was all about! | ||||||
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