Results 1 - 20 of 61
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmy Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | End of Times ??? | NT general Archive 1 | Emmy | 119309 | ||
1 Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief; Does this not say that those knowing Christ will not be overtaken as by a thief. Therefore believers will know or realize when His coming is near? SIncerely Henry and Emmy |
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2 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119238 | ||
Hi Hank: Your question: Why do you place the burden on me to provide Scripture to prove your four statements false when you have not provided Scripture to prove them true? If I am wrong, I desire to know. You can help by trying to point out contradictions in my thinking. The statements: 1. Jesus died so that all sinners would have a chance at salvation. 2. No one can be saved except through Christ. 3. Jesus desires that all turn from sin and repent so they can be saved. 4. Not all have been aware of the gospel in their lifetime. My reasons for thinking this: Statement 3: 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,2 for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Verse 4 says Christ desires that all men come to salvation. Statement 2: Acts4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." Statement 1: The only way to be saved is through His death and resurrection, therefore He died So all men would have a chance at salvation. Statement 4 is not in the gospel Here is why I believe it to be true. The scriptures were not written till well after a generation after the time of Christ. Therefore many died without having seen or heard the gospel Paul got as far as Rome, but the church was mostly in hiding, so very few in Rome actually Got to hear him, let alone those in Norway, and Russia. His letter got to the churches he wrote, but most others in these communities did not read or hear them. Can one argue that the gospel got to China, Australia, Mexico, Canada, South and Central America within the 1st say 100 years after Christ ? During exploration of the New World, is there record that one nation or tribe in any land were talking about, or had heard about the story of Christ being crucified so that they could be saved ? It seems that if the Europeans had found a tribe in the New World teaching Christ, then that would have been noticed and recorded In the excavations of cities or villages of cultures in the new world, has any one ever found any hint that these cultures made religious relics as evidence of Christ crucified ? Just because there is no evidence, does not constitute proof that it did not exist logically speaking, but, let me ask you, do you think the gospel existed in America before 1492 when Columbus came? If these statements are all true: 1. Christ died so all have a chance at redemption 2. Christ desires that all come to salvation 3. The only way to salvation is through Christ 4. Not all heard the gospel. Then the only conclusion that can be drawn is Christ desires to and can save those who have never heard the gospel. Can you point out a problem with either the scriptures quoted, or the logical truth of the statements made. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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3 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119235 | ||
Hi Steve: 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. I agree that this passage talks about praying. I understand it to say that this kind of praying is good and acceptable to God our Saviour who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I do not follow your reasoning when you say I took this out of context. This passage says two things. 1. Praying in the way indicated is good and acceptable to Christ 2. Christ desires that all men come to accept the offer of salvation , not just Kings and rulers. Are you saying the second statement is FALSE? If so why ? Can you find a passage that says Jesus intended to offer salvation to some but not others? In both verse 1 and 3,4 it says "all men". To me means all men, not just kings and rulers. Kings and rulers are mentioned in particular because we have a real interest in them doing things right for us to have a peaceful life. It says to me pray for all men, but especially for rulers. Here are some different translations of the same verses: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1The first thing I want you to do is pray. Pray every way you know how, for everyone you know. 2Pray especially for rulers and their governments to rule well so we can be quietly about our business of living simply, in humble contemplation. 3This is the way our Savior God wants us to live. 4He wants not only us but everyone saved, you know, everyone to get to know the truth we've learned MSG ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. As you make your requests, plead for God's mercy upon them, and give thanks. 2Pray this way for kings and all others who are in authority, so that we can live in peace and quietness, in godliness and dignity. 3This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4for he wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. ---------- John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. You ADD that this hearing and learning comes only through the gospel. The verse does not actually say what you added. My test: What does a verse say and what does a verse not say. You are limiting the Father from all other forms of communication which are listed as being used in the past. Does it actually say that the gospel is the only way left ? If so where ? Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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4 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119232 | ||
Hi Hank This is the point I tried to make in the previous post. If I have the scriptures interpreted incorrectly, the best way for you to convince me of that fact is to point out that two interpretations I hold contradict each other. I hold that if two interpretations conflict, then at least one of them is wrong if not both, and I have to rethink the interpretations I hold. In fact discovering a contradiction within ones interpretations can lead to real learning. If you were trying to convince me that one has to have the gospel in order to be saved Try to find a contradiction within any statements I made on the topic. I will make some statements here that I consider to be TRUE. 1. Jesus died so that all sinners would have a chance at salvation. 2. No one can be saved except through Christ. 3. Jesus desires that all turn from sin and repent so they can be saved. 4. Not all have been aware of the gospel in their lifetime. If interested and you believe one of these statements is FALSE can you post a passage that you think supports that it is FALSE. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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5 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119141 | ||
Hi BradK Yours is a good plan. It reflects very well how we approach it It will work if God is with you. Sincerely Henry and Emmy. |
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6 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119087 | ||
Hi Hank: Thanks for the reply. No need to have a yes vs no session. I comment to things I see written on the forum to encourage people on it to think logically and read into any passsage only what it says. I post only those things I honestly believe are true,and logical. When I look at a passage, I test its meaning this way. 1. What does it actually say? Don't omit any thought 2. What does it not say ? Do not add anything it does not say. 3. Does the meaning I think it has, agree with all else I know about scriptures. If there is a contradiction between any two verses, then we try to change our thinking to resolve the conflict. This is how you can easily get us to change our thinking about any passage. Point out how one thought I post contradicts another thought I post. If a thought you hold contradicts thoughts I hold, then change in my thinking is not so easy to make. I thinks works the same for you and others. The challenge for us then, is to read all passages accurately.without adding or taking anything away,and having its meaning agree with other related thoughts in our belief. If you want to point out where my thinking is wrong on being able to be saved without having access to the gospel for instance do this. Send me the verse that you think states my thought is wrong. I'll send you my interpretration. You look for a contradiction between the verse in question and anything I have said so far on the forum. If you find a contradiction in my statements, I'll thank you for pointing it out and try to find out what is wrong with my thinking. We are into bible study for one purpose. To find out the truth about what the bible says. Alternatively you could post a passage that you think states one can only be saved if one has contact with the gospel Or that if they donot have the gospel they cannot be saved. Sincerely Henry and Emmy. |
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7 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119026 | ||
This is very interesting Steve. Thanks for your post. Agree with you that Christ died so that All might be redeemed, though we know not all will take the offer. 1 Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. If Christ desires that all men be saved, means He makes the offer of salvation to all. If he did not make the offer to one person, then His desire would be NOT to save that person. John 5:24 you quoted. This verse speaks of ones who do hear the gospel. It says nothing about those that have not heard it, so we cannot conclude that those that do not hear will not be saved. It defies logic to do so. For the following verse, text is in small letters my COMMENT INSERTED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. John 6:44-45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHETHER ONE HAS THE GOSPEL TO READ OR NOT. IT IS NOT THE GOSPEL THAT DRAWS ONE TO CHRIST, BUT THE FATHER IN HEAVEN HIMSELF. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets'and they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. THE WRITTEN GOSPEL IS NOT MENTIONED AS BEING REQUIRED. WE HAVE TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER AND LEARN FROM HIM TO COME TO CHRIST. HAVING THE GOSPEL BUT NOT BEING DRAWN IS OF NO USE TO US. Your comment: "The only way to Jesus is by hearing the word of God."cannot be found, at least that I know of, in the gospel. The only way to Christ is to be drawn by the FATHER is. In His drawing people to Christ, I do not see how that can be limited to the gospel, since many never came in contact with it. The great commission as it is called. Mark 16:15. The statement "go into all the world" is addressed to the 11 disciples. We assume they did what they were told. Many assume that that means all believers are to do this, which is not so, because it contradicts this passage. James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment. The job it is of an angel in the end times to preach the gospel to all who dwell on the earth. It is therefore not possible for man to accomplish this in the first place at this point in time. If it were the task of men to do it, then why send an angel as well? Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; This preaching of the gospel seems to leave no one out. All hear it. even so not all heed it at this time. It is probably done as a last chance for all to change their minds and accept Christ. Lastly: Your comment we have NO biblical examples of any person being saved without God's special revelation of Himself to that person. Logically: No bear in your house does not mean they do not exist. You are perfectly correct however. The FATHER Himself draws us to Christ(We all get a personal revelation from the Father) but again that cannot be limited to the written gospel, since many thoughout history have had no access to it. We have to be careful what we teach, because teaching it wrong is not a good idea. The stricter judgement of teachers probably has something to do with teaching wrong things and thereby leading others astray, or harming them in some way. This is not to say that bible study and discussion is not good, quite the contrary, we learn lots from it. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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8 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 118943 | ||
Hi: Romans1:9 Means that people from the beginning of time of them being on earth, right to today, God has a hand in their consciousness, and gives all people evidence that He is God. If people ignore this, they have no excuse that will hold up at judgement. This was true for gentiles who did not have the OT laws, and is still true for people today after Christ, whose offer of salvation is open to ALL. It says HE died once for ALL, so there is no exception. Strange as it seems at first, just as in OT times Gentiles did not have the law, but are going to be held accountable, so today in NT times, those that do not hear the gospel, still have within them knowledge of God. If they follow through with what God has put in their consciousness, and draw close to Him, Christ will save them as He has promissed that HE died for ALL. If one thinks this is not possible, namely to be saved by Christ without having heard the gospel, one should be able to explain the following: Does it say in scripture that one HAS to hear the gospel in order to be saved by Christ? How did all American Natives get to hear the gospel before America was discovered by Europeans? If they did not hear the gospel, and it is necessary to hear it to be saved, then how can they be included among Christ's offer of salvation is for ALL ? My point is this: The gospel has not been heard by ALL. The offer of salvation is open to ALL. Therefore the gospel is not necessary for salvation. Even if the gospel was heard by all today with modern communications, it was not so for the last 2000 years. To us the only answer is that God makes himself known to man as explained in Romans 1 above. This knowledge must be enough to have people draw near to God and He to them, to save them as he saves anyone who hears the gospel and draws near and is saved. I am not in any way diminishing the importance of the gospel, but pointing out that as in OT God could reach and save Gentiles who did not hear the law, So in NT times HE can reach and save people who have not heard the gospel, since it says he died for all, but all have not heard the gospel. What say you? Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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9 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118825 | ||
Romans 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. This says that from the very beginning God made HImself evident through creation, and because this has always been sufficient to make connection with God. There is no reason why this is not still so. Once having made the connection, God will supply all that is needed for eternal life by whatever means that is. In these last times it is through Christ by the Holy Spirit. I think it is assumed incorrectly that the Spirit cannot teach all that is required to know so that one is saved through Christ, though having never heard or read the scriptures, they are without excuse. If this is not how the natives of North America from Christ's time to 1492are to connect to God, and receive life, how could they be saved, having no access to the gospel either in word or in writing ? Is it possible that an North American Indian of that time period looked at creation as it states here, and tried to draw close to the creator, and was saved through Jesus the redeemer of all that are redeemed, and the only redeemer. If it was possible for an Indian to be redeemed, or saved he/she would be saved by no other than Christ. If it were not possible, then Jesus did not die for ALL, but just for some who had access to hearing or reading the gospel. If the hearing or reading of the gospel is really essential for salvation, one must conclude the vital part of the gospel required by these Indians must have somehow reached them. before whiteman arrived. How could one explain that? Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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10 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118822 | ||
Hi Colin: Revelation is revelation whether from nature or other sources. They are both valid because they are from God. Each serves it own purpose. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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11 | The dead know nothing ??? | Eccl 9:5 | Emmy | 118821 | ||
Hi Colin: Matt 17:12 but I say to you, that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." This clearly says as Elijah was killed, so He(Jesus) was to be put to death. Now we know Elijah was not killed when He was here firs time, He was killed as John and Baptist. Perhaps you cannot see it that way, buy we cannot see it as anything other than what I have suggested. A difference of opinion ought not as is often the case cause hard feelings among believers, unless the teachings are anti-Christ. I trust you agree. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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12 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118816 | ||
Thanks for the definition of scripture Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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13 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118814 | ||
God had Jesus speak for HImwhile He was here. When He left the Spirit was sent to teach us. This Spirit has to be accessible to All. I cannot conceive of ALL having heard the scriptures, can you? That is really the point. The gospel is the gospel whether in writing or in word. There are literally millions who have never read or heard it. How can they be saved? Are you saying that one who has not heard the gospel cannot be saved? Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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14 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118811 | ||
Hi Seve: He still communicates in different ways. eg. Christ, Holy Spirit, Dreams, speaking in tongues. I know that some of the Patiarchs were visited directly by Christ. Abraham and Moses would be examples I can think of right off the bat. I do not believe that All Patriarchs were contacted by God through the Holy Spirit. Not quite sure where you got that from when readin g my posting. SIncerely Henry and Emmy. |
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15 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118808 | ||
Hi Steve: I covered your main question already. Romans 10:14 is a quote from Psalms, and that the voice was heard from the beginning, and word went out into the entire world long before the gospel was in place, and so this passage does not mean what you think it means. Your point "someone to share the gospel is a requirement for hearing. The voice and word is not "someone" speaking Read the Psalm again and see if it is not the evidence of God's creation that gives voice that God is, and gives word that God is. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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16 | The dead know nothing ??? | Eccl 9:5 | Emmy | 118804 | ||
Hi Emmaus: This is a good way to pose a question. If you do not agree with a statement, consider other passages that seem to be related. To say that the verse about the dead knowing nothing must not be read in isolation from the passages you quote here is to imply that the verses you quote must not be read in isolation from the passage about the dead knowing nothing. Both statements have to be true. Until one sees an interpretations that allow both statement to stand, one should keep looking, and not say the one they do not like is wrong. Statement: the dead know nothing. Statement: Samuel came out of the ground from the dead to speak to King Saul. Both went back to the place of the dead, in the earth. Conclusion: The dead know nothing, BUT there is the possibility for calling someome from the dead to be in a body for a short time and then return to the place of the dead in the state of knowing nothing. Jesus did this for Lazarus and numerous others. Therefore while in the place of the dead, the dead are not aware of anything. But there are examples of people being recalled from the dead, at which time they are aware, as Samuel was, and also Lazarus. Elijah-John the Baptist-One Witness in Revelation. These are the same people. Elijah did not die but was translated the first time he was here. He came the second time as John the Baptist. He will come again as one of the witnesses in the end times before all things are restored. Elijah is surely a very special case. There seems to be a possiblilty of one other person who goes thesame route. Elijah translated, comes back as John the Baptist, is killed, is seen in the transfiguration, is to come again in the end times, is killed, comes back to life and is transslated again. Surely he is a hard man to keep down. Makes one wonder if he ever really among the dead for long. The first resurrection has not yet occured. This is to happen after Christ returns in the end times. Resurrection means bring back to life if I have that right. Just after the first resurrection it says the rest of the dead were not brought back to life till the 1000 years are over. Rev 20:5 This means those in the first resurrection were dead just moments before it. Matt 22:32 God is God of the living not the God of the dead. This does not mean we do not die, but we are not dead to God. We are only asleep for a moment between dying and the first resurrection. John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; This clearly says believers do die, but will be resurrected. God is that God of those who are spiritually alive. He is not the God of those spiritually dead. They have other gods, in that they worship gods of stone, metal, money or anything else that has no life in it. There is a passage refering to a person who is physically alive but already dead. Can't find it at present. Thus dead has more than one meaning in scripture. Therefore context dictates which to apply. Phsically dead Spiritually dead. God is God of the spiritually alive God is not the God of the spiritually dead. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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17 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118776 | ||
Hi Steve: A reread will show that I said God communicates in many ways. I did not say Holy Spirit to any specific person listed that I recall. Define scripture. SIncerely Henry and Emmy |
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18 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118773 | ||
Hi Hank: This is a quick one. I tried to lay out a clear explanation to you. Hope they were not too long May I state that I have no intention of making the scriptures less than they are. They are a miracle and wonder to us. It is perhaps the only book that is so simple in its messages yet impossible to believe without God actually helping through the Spirit. We believe it from cover to cover. For believers to have differing opinions about a passage is not surprising. SOme know more than others. We do believe the scriptures are trustworthy of course. A non believer thinks it untrustworthy. Someone at some time must prove to the unbeliever that the scripture is truth. The Holy Spirit does this. From a believer's view point, it is not testing what the scriptures say is true or false, but how others interpret what they think it means. The scriptures are often twisted to suit the situation, and those doing it can try to convince others of the incorrect intertretation. That is what we all have to test. We have to test every interpretation of others, not the scriptures themselves once we believe that they are God's word. Sincerely Henry and Emmy. |
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19 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118767 | ||
Hi Hank: Hi again Hank How Christ can reach people who have not heard the gospel. COMMENTS IN CAPITALS Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." EVERYONE MEANS NO EXCEPTION, WHETHER ONE HAS ACCESS TO A BIBLE OR NOT.(MOST THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE NOT HAD ACCESS TO A BIBLE) IT IS POSSIBLE TO CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WITHOUT HAVING ACCESS TO THE GOSPEL. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FROM THE BEGINNING WHEN THERE WAS NOT YET THE WRITTEN GOSPEL. 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" GOOD NEWS IN THIS CONTEXT DOES NOT MAN "GOSPEL" ONLY, SINCE ISAIAH WAS ONE WHO WAS SENT TO SPREAD IT. 16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. WORD OF CHRIST DOES NOT START AND END WITH THE GOSPEL. THE GOSPEL IS HOWEVER A HELPFUL PART. _______________ This passage to many means that believers need to spread the WORD (interpreted gospel), in order that people may be saved,but read on and we see that this "news" has always been here, and is being sent today to all. Romans 10:18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." ______ Whose voice has gone into all the earth? Whose words went to the ends of the world? Many say the apostles with the gospel. This passage does not mean the gospel at all, because it did not exist at the time the voice went out to all the world and the word to the ends of the earth.This passage is a quote taken from Psalms, and the word and voice had gone out long before him. The words and voice it speaks of here is explained in Psalms 19:19:1 For the director of music. A psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. This speaks of the message God displays on His creation, that man should know there is a God and seek to know Him. Anyone who calls on HIm through hearing his "voice" or hearing His word will be saved. This passage and the one in Romams 10 above cannot be refering to the Gospel alone, because the gospel was unknown in much of the world at the time the passages were written. Jesus created everything, and nothing was created without him it says. Therefore one hearing of seeing His majesty through what he made, and calls on the one who created it, then he is calling on Christ, and through calling on Him will be saved. There is no one outside this promise, regardless of where he is born, or the culture he is born in. Everyone has to overcome the obstacles a culture sets up as stumbling blocks, and call on Christ who created all things and worship Him. No matter how isolated, all have access to the voice and word so as to attain to salvation by giving it the attention it is due. Christ would send the Holy Spirit in these days to one living in a primative and isolated spot with no bible just as soon as he would send it to me with 5 translations of the gospel on the computer. How can God reach people if they do not have a copy of the Gospel. IN the very gospel we have and believe it says he has MANY ways. In these last days, through the sacrifice of Christ he has made the Holy Spirit available to all whom he chooses, and all have equal opportunity in a fair and just system. Simply stated: Christ was crucified, and through that event, ALL have opportunity to be saved, and receive Holy Spirit, if they call on Him. For ALL to have opportunity, means knowing the scriptures is not a prerequisite to salvation. But calling of God is. We can have knowledge far in excess as what is written in the bible, and be worth nothing (if we have not love). 1 Corr 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. All the law is satisfied IF we love God, and our neighbour. This is not complicated, and can be understood by plain and simple folk without even having an education. If we stive hard to practise those two things, God will provide us with all else we need for life. Sincerely Henry and Emmy. |
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20 | reassurance of lambs book of life | Rev 20:15 | Emmy | 118749 | ||
Hi Hank: I don't mind in the least your responsse to this thread. Let me ask you this in reference to your first point. IS KJV better than New World Translation ? If as many on this forum claim that NWT is not right, then you have not taken that stranger's or translator's word on trust, but you have tested what they wrote to see if it is true. That is all I am saying. We need the Holy Spirit as an outside source to test all things we hear and read. Once we know the scriptures are authentic through this same source, we have a wealth of good advice to draw on, provided the Spirit open it to us. Knowing God. If you were to read carefully again what I wrote you will find that I do not equate knowing the scriptures to knowing God. I clearly understand that knowing God is possible without knowing any scriptures at all. Adam knew God. Did he have scriptures? Eve knew God. Abel knew God. Enoch knew God. Noah knew God. Abraham knew God. Moses knew God. Did any of these have scriptres to go by? Did God not reach them without the aid of scriptures? He did so through Holy Spirit speaking directly to ones whom HE chose. Moses and all of the above knew God before any of the OT scriptures were written, or heard of. Therefore one can know God without having access to scriptures, at least in the past. But what about from the time of Christ to today? Does one have to hear the gospel to be saved ? All the people living in the Americas since the time of Christ to the time of Columbus better hope so. It is probably a safe bet to assume the gospel was not preached in the Americas before that time. Yet is says in trustworthy scriptures that "Christ died ONCE and for ALL." This "ALL" would have to include a lot of people who never heard the gospel, else they are not included and Chist did not die for them. A native living in North America would have had the same chance of being saved as anyone in Jerusalem shortly after the death of Christ. If this were not so, God would be a respecter of persons which it clealy states He is not. John 14:6 " I am the way" It does not actually say one has to read the gospel to reach Him. It does not say the gospel is the way,but that Christ is. If you can find a passage that says one has to read or hear the gospel to be saved let me know. Act 4:12 Also simply states that one is saved by Christ and no one else. No mention of reading scriptures here either. That is a notion erroneously assumed to be the case. John 20:31 Having the scriptures available for reading surely can be helpful, but not having them or not being able to read cannot be an obstacle to salvation, since most people throughout history have not been able to read, or have a bible. This passage states that the scriptures are good for learning abut Christ, but does not state not having them means one is excluded from salvation. Hebrews 1:1 says that God can communicate in many ways. In the last days, He communicated through His Son. This SON , before He left, said He would send the Holy Spirit to teach us, so we can believe that the Spirit is here, and dwells in us to teach us as Christ said it would happen. Is it hard to believe that Natives in North America before Columbus could also have received the Holy Spirit to teach them the things of God, if they showed an interest in knowing Him? Is it easier to believe that they were left out of the offer of salvation when it is written Christ died ONCE for ALL? Romans 1:16 Of course Paul was no ashamed of the good news he taught to people. Neither am I. The gospel is a treasure to be sure, and if believed, and followed, it leads to salvation. This passage also does not address the case where one never hears it, and that having not heard it cannnot be saved. That is read into this passage erroneously again if it is. 2 Tim 2:15 It is good to handle the words of the gospel well as it is stated, but again mention of those that have not heard the gospel, so draw no conclusion that those who do not hear it are excluded. They have another avenue (NOT another Saviour). Hebrews 4:12 Sure the word of God is all it claims here, but the scriptures being wholly the word of God, are not the entire word of God. There's more that we have not yet heard. The Holy Spirit is able to teach anything to any one God wishes. The Spirit can not only teach what is written of the word of God in scriptures, It can teach the word of God that is not written to one who read scriptures or one who has never seen or heard of them. I think I have answered to all your passages listed, and do not believe any one of them excludes God reaching people directly throughHoly Spirit as He should be doing with you. HOW CAN PEOPLE KNOW IF THEY HAVE NOT HEARD? HOW CAN THEY HEAR UNLESS A TEACHER IS SENT? Explanation to follow: |
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