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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203832 | ||
Hello WOS, First let me state that I am not trying to persuade you that soul sleep is correct. I don't think it really matters whether you believe in soul sleep or that the spirit lives on after death. I assume you will agree that neither belief will save you or condemn you. The bigger issue is that we not just brush under the rug any doctrine that does not line up with ours as if it is nonsense. However, since you have asked for where this is taught, I will give a few examples. I am aware that some Scriptures seem to teach that the soul lives on after death. Others seem to teach that at death you do not exist at all until the resurrection. Choose whichever you like, but each side has valid arguments. Ecc 12:7 is often given as an argument that the spirit lives on. That could be true. Who am I to disagree? Yet, the word translated as “spirit” is the Hebrew word “ruwach”. This is the same word used to describe the spirit of animals as well. See Ecc 3:18-21, the word “ruwach” is translated as “breath” in this passage. Nonetheless, man and beast have the same “ruwach”, breath, spirit. Again, check Gen 7:15 when the word “ruwach” describes the breath of life of animals. This is restated in Gen 7:22. From a study of this words it appears that the “spirit” of man is the same as the “spirit” of animals (which is what Ecc 3:18-21 says). If this is the case, then if the spirit of man lives on, then one should also believe the sprit of animals lives on. Those who believe in soul sleep would say that the “spirit returning to God” is not referring to man entering the “spirit world”, but to that which God gave us which gives us life (His breath) he has now taken back from us, which is similar to what Psalms 104:29 and Job 34:14-15 say. Job 10:20 – Talks of no return from death Job 14:7-17 – Similar to above, but Job does mention that there will be a resurrection at some point, but he talks as if he does not exist until then. Psalms 6:5 – Talks as if there is no consciousness after death. Ecc 3:18-21 – Already mentioned above Ecc 9:5, 10 – Talk about the dead know nothing, having no reward, etc. Ezek 18:4, 20 – Talks about the soul dying (Hebrew: Nephesh) From reading these passages, some will get the definite feeling that the Jews did not believe in an immediate afterlife (or at least not give it much importance). These are the OT verses. I can put in the NT ones if you like. It isn’t really necessary though. The point isn’t to change your mind about soul sleep, but to get you to consider another’s views. It is better to hear what they have to say than to hear what someone else has to say about them. Jamison |
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2 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | Wild Olive Shoot | 203838 | ||
Dear Jamison, I’d like to point you to how Paul instructs Timothy: 2Timothy 2:15-18: 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. …“The way of error is down-hill; one absurdity being granted or contended for, a thousand follow: Their word will eat as doth a canker, or gangrene; when errors or heresies come into the church, the infecting of one often proves the infecting of many, or the infecting of the same person with one error often proves the infecting of him with many errors. Upon this occasion the apostle mentions some who had lately advanced erroneous doctrines: Hymeneus and Philetus. He names these corrupt teachers, by which he sets a brand upon them, to their perpetual infamy, and warns all people against hearkening to them. They have erred concerning the truth, or concerning one of the fundamental articles of the Christian religion, which is truth.”… …“ Observe, 1. The babblings Timothy was to shun were profane and vain; they were empty shadows, and led to profaneness: For they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2. Error is very productive, and on that account the more dangerous: it will eat like a gangrene. 3. When men err concerning the truth, they always endeavour to have some plausible pretence for it. Hymeneus and Philetus did not deny a resurrection, but pretended it was already past. 4. Error, especially that which affects the foundation, will overthrow the faith of some.”… - Matthew Henry This is for your consideration. This is the trail we embark upon when we do not “just brush under the rug any doctrine that does not line up with ours as if it is nonsense” when in fact it is nonsense. And I can say that concerning soul sleep, because the Bible does not support this at all. Considering other views is not really the issue I see. I’m learning and growing and continue to do so and have and probably will again, alter my position to harmonize with scripture when it does not. And I cannot at this point comment on your mention of how ruwach is used and what this might imply, but also at this point don’t feel it would enhance this look into soul sleep and advocating “other doctrines” concerning it. I can say that the verses you posted cannot support soul sleep because we know scripture doesn’t contradict itself and the following are pretty clear with what happens in the place of soul sleep: Luke 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. 2Corinthians 5:6-8: 6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Philippians 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. Just for info, I don’t see the relevance of much of the scripture you posted concerning our topics: Job 10:20 talks of his living days on Earth and they are few for all of us, this has nothing to do with the subject. Job 14:7-17: Again this is speaking of physical death… Psalms 6:5 : See Psalm 16:10. Ezekiel 18:4: the soul that sins will see the second death and be separated from God for all eternity. None of these, and I didn’t hit on all of what you posted, support soul sleep as I see it. I think this is a subject that can linger on and maybe we should stop it here. I’ll end this post saying that to consider a doctrine that is in no way supported by scripture is dangerous and to condone such is harmful. I’ll close by giving you the last response friend. Stand in His grace, WOS |
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3 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203839 | ||
Hello WOS, I would agree that this could go on virtually forever. I wasn't even interested in debating it. I only showed verses that those who do believe in soul sleep use to support it because it was requested. Their views come from Scripture, even if they may be misinterpreting them. Your views come from Scripture even though you may be misinterpreting them. That is why their view is worth considering, even though after consideration one may not agree. I appreciate you allowing me the last post, very tactful. However, I don't care to refute anything you have presented. I am not trying to support soul sleep. Thank You, Jamison |
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