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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Crusifixtion a sacrafice? John 3:16 | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 223585 | ||
Integrity, You said that there is plenty of scripture to back up what you are suggesting. I encourage you to provide that scripture. Where does it say that Christ was seperated from the Father? I do not think that "why have you forsaken me?" implies that neccesarily. Where does scripture indicate that a spiritual death is a better sacrifice? Where does Jesus say that a spiritual death was worse unless you refer to the passage that says fear not those who can take your life but Him who after taking your life can cast you into hell? If that is the case, and you are calling being thrown into hell spiritual death, then we have a much more clear definition of what you are saying. If you mean to say spiritual death is not that, then that passage doesn't support you. However, you've yet to say anything of serious error yet, but let me share what is concerning me about your thinking. If you stray into error on this, your error is going to be concerning the sufficiency of Christ's attonement. That would be a very very serious error indeed. This is why I am nervous with somebody who is reasoning that the physical suffering, death, and ressurection of Jesus alone doesn't seem to be enough. Now certainly there were spiritual implications of Christ's death. His death was an outpouring of God's wrath in a way that a typical martyr's death, for example, is not. However, it is hard for us to say anything beyond that. In Christ, Beja |
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2 | Crusifixtion a sacrafice? John 3:16 | Bible general Archive 4 | Integrity Electric | 223587 | ||
Lots of questions so little time. The passage you quoted is exactly the passage that I am refereeing to. Thrown into hell would be separation God and more. Where did Jesus spend the three days during his death. The physical death and resurrection of a physical being? NO. You are in error when you state that why have you forsaken me is not a separation. This is the whole reason for the atonement. God can not look at sin. Our sin of Christ taking on our sin. Be not concerned about my salvation. It is secure. Regardless if you recognize that there was a spiritual side to Christ suffering or not or if that was more significant does not place someones salvation at risk. I will share some scriptures later but I have to go. Bless you Brother, David |
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3 | Crusifixtion a sacrafice? John 3:16 | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 223588 | ||
Integrity, I didn't make any judgment regarding your salvation. I think my post was very restrained in the sense of making any statement of that kind. You are making a leap of logic that doesn't work. You are saying... 1. Jesus said going to hell is worse than dying. 2. Therefore seperation from God is worse than dying. 3. Therefore the real sacrifice was seperation from God. These things don't follow. If you are suggesting the true horror that Christ had to endure was going to hell for three days, then say that. If you are saying it was some other type of seperation from God other than going to hell, then that verse does not support your assertion. Second. Christ did say, "My God, my God, why have you foraken me?" That is a fact. To say that that phrase means that He and God the Father were somehow seperated is an inference. The text doesn't actually SAY that, you are inferring it from what was said. Now and inference may be correct, but we need to admit that it is what we are inferring from the text. Could it not however mean something else? If David were in a battle and was utterly defeated and cried out that exact same phrase, could he not be referring to the fact that God handed him over to defeat? The term "forsaking" need not be given some mystical meaning beyond our understanding. I hold that when Christ said those words that He meant to convey the concept of the entire Psalm which He was quoting. In Psalm 22 it describes the crucifiction event in great detail but ends in a proclamation of triumph. I think this is what Christ meant to convey. It makes far more sense than to say from this single phrase that somehow God the Father and God the Son became seperated in some mystical way. We can't even begin to understand such a suggestion or what the implications would be. So currently for your view you have an inference from a statement Christ made on the cross, and that Christ said that hell is worse than death. This is hardly a case which would give ground to make such a drastic statement that the physical death burial and ressurection of Jesus was not sufficient in and of itself. In Christ, Beja |
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