Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185429 | ||
Hello ebrain Am I right in thinking that you are arguing that Paul's statement in Romans 3 to the effect that "no one seeks for God" only applied to those who opposed Israel at the time the psalm he quotes was written? Surely the whole point of Paul's argument in Romans 1-3 is to show the universality of sin and that the whole world is guilty before God. He quotes Psalm 14 to back this view up. Whatever the original meaning of the statement in the psalm, Paul clearly believed it to be true of the whole human race when he used it as part of his argument in Romans 3. Because all are dead in sin and at enmity with God, no one seeks for God until God graciously changes his heart. Apollos |
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2 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | ebrain | 185738 | ||
Hi Apollos. Thank you for your post.. What Paul has to say in Romans Chapter 3, has to be considered within the context of what he had already said in Ch 2, an extract from which is given bellow. Rom 2:6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":* Rom 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Rom 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; Rom 2:10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) Please note especially verses 7, and 14-15.. I do not see how it is possible for "eternal life", to be given to anyone described by who Paul at. Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; Rom 3:11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. He cannot possibly with these last verses be referring to all mankind at all times in history, otherwise he would be contradicting himself. I believe that all Paul is doing here in these two Chapters, is contrasting "Gentile", behavior with, "Jewish" behavior. The Jews who had the Oracles of God should have known better. A possible explanation for Ch 2, could be found at. Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. Act 10:2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. Act 10:3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" Act 10:4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. Act 10:5 "Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. Please compare the following extracts, and tell me if you think there is a connection? Was Cornelius saved because of Merit? "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;" "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God." Every blessing. Edwin. (ebrain) |
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3 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185753 | ||
Hello Edwin My anaysis of Romans 1-3 is as follows. Ch.1:18ff the Gentiles are guilty. Ch 2 - the Jews are, if anything, more guilty than the gentiles since they have sinned against greater light. Paul's conclusion in chapter 3 is that all have therefore sinned and no one will be justified by works. The whole world is guilty before God. His conclusion to this argument is a whole string of quotations from the OT Scriptures to the effect that the human race is thoroughly sinful (3:9-19). When he says in chapter 2 that it is those who keep the law by patient continuance in doing good (and not just those who know the law like the Jews) who will be justified he does not mean that anyone actually is justified in this way because he goes on to declare in 3:20, 23 etc all have sinned and that no one will be justified by works of the law. It is only through Christ that anyone is justified, Jew or Gentile, with the law or without the law. This is how I interprete these marvellous verses. As for Cornelius, even as a good gentile who believed in the God of Israel and prayed to him etc, he still needed to hear the gospel of forgiveness of sins through the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43) and Peter specifically says in 11:14 that it is through this message that Cornelius and his household would be saved. I would also want to say that if he was seeking God before this (as he clearly was) it could only have been because God had begun to work in his heart to bring him to himself. Without that work of God no one would ever seek for God. Best wishes Apollos |
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4 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 185754 | ||
Hi Apollos, I think I agree with your post here, I just wish to clarify one point. You're not saying, then, that Cornelius was seeking God prior to Peter's preaching because he had already somehow been regenerated, it that right? So then this would be an example of what I believe is refered to as "prevenient grace", the grace that allows a person to make the choice to seek God, but is not actual salvation itself? Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185758 | ||
Hi Mark To be honest, I don't really know when Cornelius was regenerated. In my view faith in Christ is a result or fruit of regeneration and therefore Cornelius was born again before he trusted Christ and could not have done so if he had not been regenerate. I believe that godly OT Jews before Christ were regenerate and it is therefore possible that Cornelius (as a gentile convert to Judaism) was regenerate before he heard and believed the gospel. But, if this was so (and I am not dogmatically saying it was) his good works were the fruit of regeneration and his regeneration was a work of God's grace. He was certainly not saved by merit - no one ever was or will be! Yours in him Apollos |
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6 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 185763 | ||
Hi Apollos, This is more how I understood you to believe, that is why I was somewhat surprised when it seemed you were acknowledging that Cornelius was not yet saved when the angel came to him. Now, I most certainly agree that none of us are saved by our own merit. Were we to actually merit salvation, we wouldn't need salvation, not being spiritually dead. But being regenerated, well, Cornelius is a terrific example. Either he was already regenerated when the angel came to visit, or he wasn't yet. But if he was, then how do we separate his salvation from his regeneration? Since it's all about being spiritually alive or dead, then how is it he can be regenerate but not yet saved? This, to me, simply poses too great of a difficulty to accept that view. Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185765 | ||
Mark Thanks for your helpful comeback. I did say that I do not know when Cornelius was regenerated! I would be very interested to read the thoughts of others on this. I certainly think that God had begun a good work in him (Phil.1:6)and I find it hard to believe, therefore, that if he had died while Peter was on his way to his house that he would have gone to hell. But Acts 11:14 poses a difficulty for the view that he was regenerate before he heard the gospel. Yours in him Apollos |
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8 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185767 | ||
Hello Apollos, Warm greetings brother! The thief on the cross never heard the gospel, at least scripture doesn't say. Maybe like the old testament saints that believed God? Maybe something like a credit plan? :-) God bless. John |
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