Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | hobbs | 185243 | ||
You have said, "You cannot choose God". If this is the case, then please explain, "choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve", as in the verse below? Jos 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Are you suggesting that God speaking through Joshua is asking the people to do what God knows full well they cannot do? ------------------------------------------------- "If it seems evil to you to serve the Lord...". Funny, but I have never noticed the signifcance of that particular phrase until now! I wonder how many unsaved people today consider it "evil" to trust Christ? Would'nt it be astounding to hear such a statement used in the presetation of the Gospel! Joshua does'nt even attempt to persuade them otherwise. He just tells them ... "Worship whatever you will if you believe that God is not an appropriate object of your love and reverence. Me and mine believe that God is Holy and we will worship Him." The choice Joshua is offering the people (in v. 15) is a choice between two sets of pagan dieties. I don't see this as a firm foudation for the establishment of so-called "free-will". Hobbs |
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2 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | ebrain | 185350 | ||
Hi Hobbs. You said. "I don't see this as a firm foudation for the establishment of so-called "free-will". Please read the following Scripture verses, and let me have your answer to the question I ask. Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. Tell me did Enoch walk with God of his own free will? Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. Tell me did Noah walk with God of his own free will? Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?" Tell me did Job fear God and shun evil of his own free will? Thank you. ebrain. |
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3 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | hobbs | 185351 | ||
Dear Edwin, Thanks for your reply. There is nothing more important than getting to the truth of God's Word. I heatily agree that Enoch, Noah and Job were men who desired to serve God. The question is: Did their desire for God emerge out of their own hearts or had they recieved these desires by the grace of God. From my reading of the Bible, I am firmly convinced that, apart from God's grace, Enoch would not have walked with God; Job would have taken his wife's advice and no one would have survived the flood! Now, why do I believe that what I have just said is true. Allow me to list just two verses for starts. Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; Hobbs |
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4 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185373 | ||
Dear Hobbs, Oh but there is something more important then just getting the truth. Think about it? God bless. John |
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5 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185380 | ||
Excuse me... but... Huh? | ||||||
6 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185389 | ||
Greetings Doc! Well, you were not someone who I would have thought would respond with a "Huh?" AS I am sure you know that discernment of the truth is only one of the gifts listed in 1 cor. And this as I know you know is a concise and in no way comprehensive list, as it barley covers the full scope of the gifts available to believers. And love being the greatest of these. But there is one even greater then this. Can you tell me? God Bless. John |
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7 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185392 | ||
Hi, John... It is popular in many circles to sagely resort to the priority of love when faced with discussions of the importance of sound doctrine, exegesis, reason, or learning. The claim is based on Paul's assertion concerning the three virtues of faith, hope, and love in 1 Corinthians 13:13. This use of Biblical love is highly misleading. One could easily, for example, refute the line of reasoning by looking to the attributes of God. He is, we are told, love (1 John 5:3). However, we do not find the love of God thrice affirmed as we do His holiness (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). Furthermore, faith comes by hearing God's word (Romans 10:17), and we are sanctified by God's word (John 17:17). With that in mind, we do not find God elevating love above His own name, yet that is what we are told He does with His word (Psalm 138:2). Indeed, our Lord Jesus tells us that we live by every word of God (Luke 4:4) -- was He forgetting the importance of love? Is it love that sets us free (John 8:32)? Finally, we could simply study the entire first epistle to the Corinthians to rightly understand Biblical love in its proper context in a Christian's life. Love is, indeed, the summum bonum -- the greatest good. But that isn't the whole story. Nor is it appropriate to appeal to it as being somehow superior to the truth. No, our Brother Hobbs was speaking well as he encouraged Edwin the all-import activity of the pursuit of truth in the Scriptures. Indeed, these were words that had their very roots founded in love. Please note that the raising of this question also has nothing to do with the discussion of God's grace and man's inability -- the topic at hand. However, perhaps it succeeds where my incredulous "Huh?" failed. If you'd like to discuss love further, let's do so in a new thread. In Him, Doc "True love likes to become familiar with the object of its affection; its heart is set upon that object, it studies it, and can never know it too well or too closely. True love to Christ thinks of Him from morning till night; it is glad to be released from other thoughts that it may follow only its one darling pursuit." --Charles H. Spurgeon |
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8 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185400 | ||
Hi doc! I suppose it is a tactic of yours to try to embarrass someone, when you don't know the answer to a simple fundamental question. I really don't appreciate it, but I forgive you. And I was not resorting to the priority of love Because of my inability the communicate my opinion on election over free will. And I don't believe election is sound doctrine. By the way. And very frankly I do not think that it is substantively efficacious to even discus it. It was the object of my affection that I had in mind when I asked, ... What is greater? I am surprised you mist it. John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son" It was not my intention to turn the discussion to love. I Just don't happen to agree with the statement. that follows. Evidently you do agree with it. "There is nothing more important than getting to the truth of God's Word." Respectfully that is. And was trying to (point out some truth.) And, point out things in the Bible that I believe it says are greater. And, by the way, I assumed it was appropriate to comment, as it is practiced quite often here. I was not aware it was taboo to make a comment on something that was off subject, it was rude of me to do so. I am sorry. And also, nor do I agree with your admonishment, and, respectfully as well. "Love is, indeed, the sum-mum bon-um, the greatest good. But, that isn't the whole story. Nor is it appropriate, to appeal to it as being somehow superior to the truth." That would not be my opinion. the quest for knowledge of truth, can in and of its self, become an object of affection, and therefore blind one to the very truth that one is seeking. And, by the way, appropriate for whom? And, I would place God above love as the greatest good, but, then, God is love, and we could go round and round on that one for quite some time. Nor do I believe that Paul's teaching of the virtues of faith hope and love, can be misleading. Unless perhaps they are being read by someone not lead by the Spirit. I am not suggesting that you are not led by the Spirit, but perhaps you have read commentary by someone who was not. cant tell if your incredulous 'Huh' was skeptical or humor. Hope my intrusion didn't offend. God bless, John |
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9 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185419 | ||
Hi, stjohn! I have no tactic save to expose the truth of the Bible, in the hopes that His Spirit will illumine it for those redeemed by the Son, to the glory of God. The only embarrassment I worry about is my own before the Lord God Almighty (Hebrews 13:17). Winning or losing a debate doesn't matter one single jot. What matters is our complete submission to the Word. You wrote, "I don't believe election is sound doctrine. By the way." (sic) I do not understand. Are you saying that you don't believe in the doctrine of the effectual calling of the saints (a matter of presuppositional hermeneutics). Or are you saying that you don't believe in the Bible's teaching on election (a matter of ultimate authority)? Or are you saying that you don't believe the Scripture addresses election? You wrote, "And very frankly I do not think that it is substantively efficacious to even discus it." (sic) In didactic passages of the New Testament alone there are over 50 references to election. There are at least as many references to God's calling. Now, I can understand if you are saying that you don't want to know doctrinal positions on election in general, or orthodox Christian doctrine on election in particular. However, for the sake of clarity, I am forced to ask: Are you suggesting that some of the topics of Scripture are unnecessary or unworthy of our study? In Him, Doc PS See post #185415 for my further reply to the of the priority of the Word, stemming from your sideline topic of post #185400. |
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10 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185424 | ||
Hello doc, I appreciate your wanting to have a discussion on election. Thank you for your interest in my view on this subject. I believe that the Bible does not teach election as we know it, and that this can be a danger to proper understanding. I would rather prefer the term adoption. Election implies merit or worth. there is only one place in scripture that I can find that the term really fits that is Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ God's elect." KJV. Jesus being the only one worthy to elect. God bless. John |
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11 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 185427 | ||
Hi, stjohn... Thank you for further explaining your position. You can see my own discussion of the doctrine of election in posts #151193, #151386, and elsewhere. Election is the cause, redemption and regeneration are the means, and adoption is one of the benefits. However, our salvation is not based in a proper understanding of election (see the quote by Spurgeon in post #151484). Since the Scripture uses these terms so extensively, we can be certain that God places some importance on their being understood. Therefore, it behooves us to be very certain that we understand them as He has explained them. We live by every word of God. The Christian life is founded on doctrine (post #165448), so it is important for us to make certain that our terms are clear. This is not only crucial for our walk with God, but also so that we can clearly explain what God has said to others. In addition to Titus 1:1, you will find this same Greek word for "elect" in the following verses: Matthew 20:16; 22:14; 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; 23:35; Romans 8:33; 16:13; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Peter 1:2; 2:4, 6, 9; 2 John 1:1, 13; Revelation 17:14. In addition, you'll find a related word in Mark 13:20; Luke 6:13; 10:42; 14:7; John 6:70; 13:18; 15:16, 19; Acts 1:2, 24; 6:5; 13:17; 15:7, 22, 25; 1 Corinthians 1:27, 28; Ephesians 1:4; James 2:5. It could lead to error to base one's understanding of the use of a word on a single verse. May the Lord be gracious to you in your study. In Him, Doc "This temper of mind is hostile to precise definitions. Indeed nothing makes a man more unpopular in the controversies of the present day than an insistence upon definition of terms... Men discourse very eloquently today upon such subjects as God, religion, Christianity, atonement, redemption, faith; but are greatly incensed when they are asked to tell in simple language what they mean by these terms." --John Gresham Machen |
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12 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | stjohn | 185434 | ||
Hello Doc! And thanks! Here is a quote from a post of mine to brother Hobbs. I hope it will better explain my position. " We are chosen/elected for sure but we can refuse God. another problem that election cannot clear up is that God has made it clear, that His will, is that none should parish, election theorem has not cleared this up sufficiently for me. How and why this works, I don't know, and I don't think that they know ether. So this is why it is sufficient for me, for now, to pursue other teaching that the bible has to offer. Such as apologetics. i.e. how can I explain to the lost world why I believe what I believe, this will help me with what I believe should be our prime objective. i.e. Spread the Gospel to the lost sinners of the world." Ok, thats part of it, also I'm interested in eschatology, given the condition of things today, there is much that a person looking for answers can be helped with, having a good understanding of prophesy is very important to me. I have read the Bible through at least four times since my conversion just before the turn of the century still wet behind the ears but a very quick student. And have spent many hours, up to seven or eight a day on specific parts, 1cor is particularly interesting. I am currently attending bible study at least one hour a day. And by the way Doc I do have a better understanding of how redemption and regeneration and (adoption) works then it would appear from my use of the word, it was not the right word. I am quite good at making toughs kind of mistakes, as this word thing is relatively new to me, I seriously had not written more then 12 pages of any thing in my life up till the year 2000 (See my user profile for more info.) Also mildly dyslexic concentration is critical. I can so agree with John Gresham Machen, amen to that Brother, I am a student of human nature, so I can understand the new guy not being trusted, and am learning to be quick to forgive. I hold a honorary P.H.D. from whatsamatta U. the school of hard knocks. It is my intent to assuage mistrust. But I know that this sometimes takes time and many apologies, a heartfelt thanks for yours by the way. God Bless. John |
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