Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Country Girl | 128671 | ||
No, I don't have a problem with this seeming conflict. I'm not sure but it seems Jesus was applying this principle of "no one comes..." to those who heard His voice then AND all those who read or understand His Message through some other medium forever thereafter. In my mind, since the NT also provides this guidance as cited in Rom 2, this is the only way I can see resolving this seeming conflict. Also this would accommodate our God's Perfect Sense of Justice, which we all face on Judgment Day. How do you resolve the conflict? How do you interpret Paul's guidance in Rom 2? How about if we get a reading of the "no one comes" phrase from our Greek scholars? Tim Moran, could one of you respond? Thanks. Blessings to you. Country Girl PS: By the way, I also noticed in several of your recent posts, you have a tendancy to use "your" when you really want to use "you're." Sorry, it's just the proofreader in me...it's been done to me so much. Just trying to help. |
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2 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 128688 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! The Greek for 'no one comes' is 'no one comes'! ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist! But, even though it was an attempt at humor, my statement is accurate. There is nothing in the Greek that would change the meaning of this phrase. It is quite clear. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Country Girl | 128689 | ||
Then how do you reconcile the seeming conflict as I asked EdB? Please keep it simple with scriptures for my simple mind. Thanks and blessings to you. Country Girl |
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4 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 128692 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! Fortunately, it is quite simple! :) Romans 1-3 is simply making the case that all are sinners. It is not making the case that some could be good enough to be saved. The Jews felt that they were privileged. Paul begins in Romans 1 by showing that the pagan is lost. Then, in chapter 2, he makes the case that the Jew is also lost. Finally, he sums it up in chapter 3 that all are sinners. This introduces the work of Christ and faith in the reminder of the book. The point is that chapter 2 is not claiming that someone can be good enough to be saved. Some may be judged apart from the Law, but all will be found in the state that Rom. 3 describes - apart from Christ. Pay careful attention to the following two verses: Rom. 3:9 - "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one;'" And, Rom. 3:19 - "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." With or without the Law, we are all sinners and cannot be saved apart from faith in Christ. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Country Girl | 128806 | ||
I guess you can call me stubborn but I'm still not convinced. The people in OT times, were obsessed with the physical world. They even wanted their beloved Messiah to come and rescue them from the Roman Empire. How can you say those folks, even the faithful Jews, the ones who really did love God had a mistaken concept of what the Messiah was all about. How could they put faith in such a person? In contrast, I would say that those people did put their faith in God and just left the details to Him. But the biggest area where I disagree in this area is that of the whole world of people who have never heard the name of Christ nor have they even heard of a Bible. They've never heard the name Jehovah, God Almighty, Allah or any of the other names of the one true God as described in our Bible. True enough, this planet and its wonderful beauty does teach a person that there is a Greater Being who deserves our worship. Our inner conscience whispers to us that we know right from wrong at an early age and thus we suspect we should behave in accordance with that conscience or pay the consequences. How can you and EdB think that God is going to condemn to Hell all those who don't know Christ in spite of Paul's simple, straight forward words in Rom 2? I'm afraid it's going to take a little more convincing. But I will check with my Greek resources and friends about this "no one comes" phrase. This seeming conflict is a challenge so I'll get back to you guys. Blessings to you all. Country Girl |
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6 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 128810 | ||
Greetings Country Girl! In other words, the people of the OT were just like the people of today! :-) Different people have different views concerning those who do not have access to the Gospel. My view is simply this: God will make Himself known to any who truly seek Him. For instance, Abraham did not have a Bible, but God revealed Himself to Abraham. However, this is not to say that anyone who simply 'worships' a god will be saved. Scripture is quite clear that Christ is the only way! But, let's look at the clear words of Rom. 2 for a moment. Rom. 2:12 - "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." Now, let's compare this to Rom. 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," All have sinned; therefore, all will perish apart from Christ. Romans 3 is quite clear on the status of those who might think that they 'deserve' salvation in some other way. Rom. 3:9 - "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.' 13 'Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.' 'The poison of vipers is on their lips.' 14 'Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.' 15 'Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.' 18 'There is no fear of God before their eyes.' 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." So, would you have us believe that those who do not have the Law will be justified by their efforts to live a good life, while those who have the Law are unable to live up to it? The simple fact is that Paul is establishing that none of us can be saved apart from faith in Christ. Rom. 3:21 - "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." Now, I personally believe in a God who does not want anyone to perish, but all to come to repentance. So, I believe that there are some who may not have access to a Bible to whom God has revealed Himself. But, even then, their salvation comes through faith, not works. Finally, you can check your resources, but 'no one' simply means 'no one' ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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