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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | RAPTURE: PRE-TRIBULATION OR NOT? | Bible general Archive 2 | tomsweetstir | 108249 | ||
Please heart my heart here, Tim. I have the deepest respect for you, your ministry, your wisdom, your character, your faith, etc. That said, and meant ---- My brother Tim, I don’t agree with your opening sentence – “I do not consider the timing of the rapture to be one of those 'essential' doctrines which we must agree upon.” I admit that Heb 6:1-2 exhorts us on leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ to go ON to perfection; not laying again the FOUNDATIONS of …. resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. But, I am sure you will heartily agree with me when I state “the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment" ARE a portion of that foundation. And a faulty foundation is sure to make everything else that rests upon it to fail and fall. However, I will agree that the belief of pre-trip rapture itself has been around for much longer than 150 years. It was somewhat what Paul had trouble with as expressed in 2 Tim 2:17-18. And verse 19 refers to “the foundation”, signifying ITS importance to get this “doctrine” right. When I saw REX’s question, HOW could I not respond? Many people who don’t verbally participate, read this forum. Am I to merely close my eye to teaching that is so blatantly unscriptural? REX’s question was about the origin of the pre-trib rapture theory. Thank you, Tim, for taking the effort and time sharing what you expressed about the “pre-trib” statement written in the third century. In a previous post to Rex, I listed numerous well-known and respected writers who, through the centuries refute the pre-trib notion. So, there must have a “REASON” for them to teach how Christians would have to undergo the whole tribulation, otherwise why would they waste words? I wasn’t insinuating the pre-trib teaching “originated” in the 1800. I was merely giving facts concerning where “the rapture before the trib” TOOK SOLID ROOT. Much like the JW’s - the pre-trib “doctrine” changes. When confronted with Scriptures that “cancel” their theory, “pre-tribbers” attempt to use another portion of Scripture, (one that likewise disproves it) rather than accepting what the “first confrontational” Scripture exposes. I BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE!!! I also understand what the word means. As I am sure you well know, it comes from the Latin word “rapere” which merely means to take away, or seize. This WILL indeed happen. Jesus' prayer in John 17, where He specifically asked His Father NOT to REMOVE them from the world, but to protect them, would be the only prayer that the Father REFUSED, IF the pre OR mid-tribs are right. Me? I'm going with Jesus KNOWS His Father will "heed to the prayer" and allow us to "pass through the fires and not be burned." According to the pre-trib AND mid-trib theories, they both claim, when the Lord comes in the clouds, the trumpet will blow, the dead will arise, and those still alive will be seized up and we all will MEET the Lord in the air. THEN WHAT HAPPENS? Tom |
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2 | RAPTURE: PRE-TRIBULATION OR NOT? | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 108252 | ||
Greetings Tom! Thanks for the kind words! I am actually not a pre-tribber myself! I would hold to what is called a pre-wrath position. Like you, I don't find any justification in Scripture for Christian avoiding tribulation, but I do find justification for Christians avoiding God's wrath. :-) Anyway, I just wanted to note that historically the pre-trib position has been around for quite sometime. P.S. - By the way, the reason I don't consider the timing to be an essential doctrine is because the rapture will happen when it happens, regardless of when we think that might be! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | RAPTURE: PRE-TRIBULATION OR NOT? | Bible general Archive 2 | tomsweetstir | 108282 | ||
Tim, your P.S. comment reminded me of dear friend from years long gone. Thank you. Whenever anyone asked this Bible-teacher friend if he was pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib, he lips would creak up under his bushy white moustache. With a twinkle in his eyes he would whisper, “I’m pan-trib.” Blessings, Tom P.S. “Pan-trib” means – Whenever Jesus returns, everything will pan out OK. :) |
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