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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66411 | ||
Greetings Don! Thanks for your kind respond my new friend! I would like to respond to your quick responses, but most importantly I would like you to address Acts 10:47. You didn't touch upon that in your response. They believed, received the Holy Spirit, and then were baptized! Quick responses! 1) Gal. 2:5: Sorry about that, I meant to type Gal. 3:5. The relevancy of this verse is that reception of the Holy Spirit is based upon believing what was heard (i.e. - The Gospel), not upon baptism. 2) 1 John 3:4: Where does Scripture say that they were already baptized? 3) Eph. 1:13: Again, my friend, you are assuming that they were baptized and that this is why Paul could say that they had received the Holy Spirit. However, the text itself says that they received the Holy Spirit after believing, not after being baptized. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | dhthinker | 66421 | ||
Tim: 1. Gal 3:5 - again, God giving us the Spirit doesn't tell how He does it - simply implies that He does. 2. By definition, any of the Epistles were written to those already Christians - what did Peter say in Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."" This is the FIRST directive given by an Apostle under the New Covenant on the Day of Pentacost (Jesus had JUST left them and gave them the Great Commission Mt 28:19) and it is pretty clear - at least to me. 3. Therefore, when I read ANY of the Epistles that were written to Christians I assume that they had already: 1. Declared Jesus Lord of their Life; 2. Repented of their sins; and 3. were baptized so they could receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. By definition, read the opening remarks of all the Epistles. They are written to existing Christian churches or existing ministers of Christ - therefore the scripture has to be taken in context of that. The Gospels were written to those wanting to become Christians and even Jesus said you must be "born again" of the water and the spirit. So you read the Gospels to learn how to become a Christian and you read the Epistles to learn how to live as a Christian - that is my take on it. Finally, to your last point is doesn't say they were not baptized. I could tell you that I went to Buffalo and not tell you that I happen to go in a car, but I did. I just happened to leave that fact out. Reading exclusions from scripture has been shown wrong by various concurrent testimonies regarding the Resurrection in the Gospel - all read a little different and are simply different perspectives of the same event. Tim, again the scary part of this is that scripture says there is "one baptism" - we all need to figure it out for ourselves. However, given that the road to destruction is wide and the path to heaven is narrow - by definition, a lot of truly sincere people will be wrong. All I know is that my reading of the Bible - the Great Commission, Peter on Pentacost, etc. - all point out to the significance of baptism. Clearly, this is against what has been preached since the evangelical "road shows" in the mid 20th centurey where alter calls were the "main event." Note, that was an invention of the 20th century Bible road shows - nothing in scripture about "praying Jesus into your heart." Tim, the key assumption that we are both challenging is "who" is the scripture talking to and then what is the context. My fundamental premise is that all Epistles are written to already existing Christians - struggling at times maybe - but Christians nonetheless. If one believes this then one must look deeper to determine how they became Christians in the first place. Between the already mentioned Great Commission (Mt 28:19), Peter's response to "what do we do?", and Paul's insistence on having the various folks he converted baptized tells me that baptism is significant. It is NOT an "after thought" of becoming a Christian - because then, again by definition it becomes an "act" and we both know you are saved by grace, not by deeds. Good dialogue - I have spent a lot of time on this subject. Especially growing up Roman Catholic and then leaving the church because of the wrongs that I personally saw in the church, has caused me to really understand the significance of baptism. Note, and as you know, the Catholic practice of infant baptism has absolutely no Biblical foundation. Tim,what you believe is what the majority of "Christians" believe - I know I am in the minority. Nonetheless, I truly believe I received the gift of the Holy Spirit when I was baptized on 16 apr 00 and that my sins were washed away. All the best to you in your journey. A Disciple of Christ. Don |
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3 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66436 | ||
Greetings Don! If you would like to read my views on Acts 2:38, please use the search feature. I would respectfully submit that assuming baptism is a bad practice! :-) So, I would respectfully disagree with you treament of verses which state that those who believe received the Holy Spirit. However, you still did not address Acts 10. If one must be baptized before one can receive the Holy Spirit, how did these individuals in Acts 10 receive the gift of the Holy Spirit prior to their baptism? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | dhthinker | 66468 | ||
Greetings Tim: Couple of points - and then off to church. First, I do and will continue to assume that when the Bible is talking about Christians it is talking about those who: 1) have accepted Jesus as their savior; 2) have repented of their sins; and 3) have been baptized. This is what the Gosples - and the book of Acts - tell me is required. I don't have a definitive answer for you on Acts 10 except to note the following. First, there is nothing to keep the Holy Spirit from working in both Christians and nonChristians. It seems clear from this passage that the Holy Spirit did come on to these folks - so I will grant you that. However, in the very next scripture Peter says what is to keep them from being baptized? Clearly baptism is significant here and will allow them to have their sins "washed away" by entering into the death and resurrection of Jesus. So the question now comes up, does the Holy Spirit dwell in those who believe in Christ but have not been baptized to have their sins forgiven? Worth some dialogue... So, to summarize, the Holy Spirit might enjoin you prior to baptism, but how are your sins forgiven? Again, good dialogue and I wish you well in your studies. I can only pray that good hearts like yours are in the same line as I hope to be. Have a great Lord's Day. Your Brother in Christ, Don Turner |
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