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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 66407 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings again in Jesus' name! It's even later now, but when I saw your post I had to respond. :-) You wrote: "Paul also makes it clear in Gal. 2:5 that the Holy Spirit is received when one believes the Gospel message:" But that does not agree with the following: "It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." Acts 19:1-6 NASB. It seems to me that this passage gets ignored a lot! Peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66409 | ||
Greetings again my friend! It's early for me! ;-) I would say that there is a very reasonable response to your point. They were not really believers at all. They knew of John, but they knew nothing of Christ. This would explain why they were re-baptized in the Name of Jesus. They could not have been true Christians for all are in agreement that Christians were routinely baptized in the Name of Jesus as quickly as possible, yet these individuals had not been baptized in the Name of Jesus and had not heard of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 66412 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! Sorry, but this seems just too convenient. They are called 'disciples.' If they were disciples of John, this would have been stated. Also 'all are NOT in agreement!' :-) Most, however, agree that they were not converted by PAUL's ministry. When asked, "When you believed...," this doesn't seem to be talking about believing in John, but Christ. Just as the Twelve and other disciples of Christ prior to the Day of Pentecost, 'John's baptism' of repentance in preparation of the coming of the Messiah was the norm. This does not make them ignorant of Jesus the Christ. More likely they were ignorant of the events of the Day of Pentecost and the up-to-date teaching of Paul. Baptism in the name of Jesus is not mentioned prior to the Day of Pentecost. Brother, I admit your scenario is POSSIBLE, but not probable. There is little Scriptural evidence that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon belief, or synonymous with belief, but more likely often 'concurrent,' as water baptism SHOULD be. Sometimes the 'way things should be' and 'the way things are' is different. (like Christians!) :-) Good night! (really!) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | Is baptism a work? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 66413 | ||
Greetings Charis! Please don't answer this post tonight! Get some sleep first! :-) The command to baptize in Jesus name was given prior to pentecost. We may never know for sure what the status of these individuals was, but I am impressed by the fact they only knew John's baptism. Therefore, I don't believe they were Christians. However, regardless, we do have the case of the believers in Acts 10, who received the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing. Further, we have the Scriptures I quoted earlier which all refer to receiving the Spirit after believing. So, personally, I think there is more than adequate support that Christians receive the Holy Spirit immediately after believing. However, I did notice that you used the term 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit. Are you referring to the 'second work' of baptism? If you are, that might explain our difference in view. I am not speaking of a seond work, but the intial work of the Holy Spirit of baptizing us into Christ, sealing us, and indwelling us. I am open to the possiblity of a second work, but these works all occur upon belief. Have a good rest my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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