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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | WHICH COMES FIRST, THE RAPTURE OR TRIBUL | NT general Archive 1 | PAULINSCH | 29481 | ||
ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, WHICH COMES FIRST ,THE RAPTURE OR THE TRIBULATION ? | ||||||
2 | WHICH COMES FIRST, THE RAPTURE OR TRIBUL | NT general Archive 1 | Rom831 | 29529 | ||
There are many views - pretrib, pre wrath, post trib, etc. But there are many verses that lead me to believe in pretrib. MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' MT 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. This can mean only one of two things. vs29 either referrs to Rev 4:1 or Rev 8:7. If it's 4:1 then vs 29 refers to the time preceding the tribulation where things start getting bad (spoken of throughout the NT and Dan 11). If it refers to Rev8:7 then vs 29 refers to the seal judgments. So, at MOST, we will be here for only the seal judgments and will miss the trumpet and bowl judgments and the 3 woes. So which is it? 1TH 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ And what is the tribulation? REV 6:16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" Notice that in Rev 6, they are already speaking of suffering God's wrath which Jesus promissed us we would not. Since Rev 6 comes before Rev 8, the Above Matthew verse can't be speaking of Rev 8. So it must be speaking of Rev 4 which takes us out of the Tribulation all together. Unconvinced? Ok... Now read Daniel 11, particullarly verse 21 on. This describes the ruler who will be alive just before the tribulation/end times. Most of this describes a conflict in the middle east. Keep reading into 12 which is the tribulation (as in Revelation). Did you catch it? DA 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. This is right at the begining of the tribulation. We know this because the rest of Daniel goes on to detail it. This is when we will be delivered, the dead will awake, some will go to everlasting life, some to everlasting death. Yet this isn't post trib, because all of Daniel still has to happen. Bless...ArtS |
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3 | WHICH COMES FIRST, THE RAPTURE OR TRIBUL | NT general Archive 1 | kalos | 29535 | ||
Rom 831: Thanks for sharing with us your position. I present an alternate view of the sequence of endtime events. *********************************** OLIVET DISCOURSE -- Matthew 24 Combined Sequence of Events WARNING to God's elect. Matthew 24:4. FALSE CHRISTS. 24:5. WARS. 24:6. FAMINES. 24:7. THE GREAT TRIBULATION. 24:9,21. --Against God's Elect. 24:21. --Death. 24:9,22. --Apostasy. 24:10,24. SIGN OF THE END OF THE AGE. Sun, Moon and Stars. 24:29. SIGN OF CHRIST'S COMING. Like Lightning. 24:30,27. THE COMING OF CHRIST. 24:30. THE DELIVERANCE OF CHRIST'S ELECT. The Rapture. Matt. 24:13,31. THE WRATH OF GOD. 24:14, 37-39. The End of the Age or The Day of the Lord. (From page 89, "THE RAPTURE QUESTION Answered: Plain and Simple," by Robert Van Kampen, Fleming H. Revell, 1997) For much more detailed information, go to www.signministries.org/ For more charts go to www.signministries.org/charts.htm "These End Times charts provide visual timelines for eschatological events as they are described by Christ, Daniel, Paul, Peter, and John in many passages throughout the Bible. "The notes that accompany the charts are not meant to be exhaustive, but rather to be a readable overview. For a detailed presentation of the material and the positions, read The Sign and The Rapture Question Answered. "Rapture Positions Compared This chart provides a simple comparison of the four general positions - pretribulational, midtribulational, posttribulational, and prewrath - that are taken in reference to the timing of the Rapture in relation to Daniel's 70th Week. "The Timing of the Rapture This chart shows the sequence of the Rapture, the 7th Seal, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord as found throughout Scripture." Grace to you, kalos |
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4 | WHICH COMES FIRST, THE RAPTURE OR TRIBUL | NT general Archive 1 | Rom831 | 29540 | ||
Thanks for your reply. It is very interesting. I guess I can kind of see this view and kind of agree. But, where would you put the events of Revelation? See, I believe these things (mostly) will occur before the rapture. In fact, I believe these are the same things I pointed to in the Daniel verses. In fact, I think they are happening right now. Where I think I differ, is in what we are terming things. I believe there will be wars (which always cause famines). I believe we will be persecuted more and more. I believe things are going to start getting worse and worse just as both the Matthew and Daniel verses say. But then, these days will be cut short and these things will end when Jesus appears (rapture). Then starts Revelations. Which is what I believe is the great tribulation. I see what we will be here for to just be the "birth pangs." Nothing compared to the 7 seal, trumpet and bowl judgments and three woes. Bless...ArtS |
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5 | WHICH COMES FIRST, THE RAPTURE OR TRIBUL | NT general Archive 1 | kalos | 29626 | ||
ArtS: Short answer: The events described in Revelation chapters 6-19 parallel the events of Matthew 24. I.e., the events of both are concurrent. For much more detailed information defining and defending the prewrath rapture position, please go to (www.signministries.org). There you will find scripturally supported information contained in online definitions, charts, articles, a glossary of terms, etc. Grace to you, kalos |
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