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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | language Jesus speak | NT general Archive 1 | Alencon | 118951 | ||
Sigh, we are talking about two different dispersions. You are referring to the dispersion after the Roman sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD and I'm referring to the dispersion following the Babylonian conquest. Ptolemy was not only one of Alexander's generals he also founded a dynasty in Egypt. Cleopatra was a Ptolemy. According to Aristeas Ptolemy Philadelphus (c. 250 BC) commissioned the initial translation of the Pentateuch by 72 scholars (6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel). As told by Aristeas, the 72 scholars worked on individual translations for 72 days and when they compared the results, the were all identical, thus demonstrating God's guidance in the translation (and no I don't believe the legend, chuckle). Perhaps I should try to explain why I find your observation so interesting. If one accepts that Jesus was the Son of God, then he could have quoted from any scripture he chose. As you point out, it would have made an enormous amount of sense for him to use whatever the person he was speaking to was familiar with. 90 percent of the empire was illiterate, but the priestly classes in Jeruselem were not. I have never heard that the Pharisees used the Septuagint (although of course it is possible), so in speaking to a Pharisee which scripture would Jesus use? If the Pharisee was ignorant of Hebrew, he would have used Greek, but if the Pharisee was learned in Hebrew, he would have used Hebrew. Now comes the hard part. The Gospels were written in Greek. It is very unlikely that the evangelists spoke Hebrew. If one accepts that they used sources rather than the Holy Spirit guiding every stroke of the pen, their only source for the OT quotations and prophesies would have been the Septuagint. As an inheritance we get things like the confusion over the translation of the word "almah" in Isaiah 7:14. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Undeniably correct because the Septuagint translates the word as "parthenos" which means specifically a virgin in Greek. The KJV also translates the word in Isaiah 7:14 as "virgin." However some folks, including some Jewish scholars, believe a more accurate translation would have been "young woman." This is the translation found in the NRSV for Isaiah 7:14. This introduces a discrepency between Matthew 1:23 and Isaiah 7:14. Imagine a young man or woman, studying the scriptures for the first time and running into this. Now this isn't a quote of something Jesus said but a reference to a prophesy fulfilled by the Virgin Birth, but the point is related. If Jesus always quoted the scripture that the person he was speaking to was familier with, then the source of the quotes could be either the Septuagint or the original Hebrew scriptures. I agree this is a nit, but I find it an interesting nit. |
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2 | language Jesus speak | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 118964 | ||
I have never heard the Babylonian captivity referred to as the dispersion before I'm sorry. You caused me to start reading some of my material on Septuagint and now reasons and explanations are becoming clearer. As we both agree the Greek language was the common language and Hebrew was used like Latin was in the Catholic Church in 1950’s. Using Latin and going back to the 50’s as example we find that some priest were fluent in Latin but others only mastered the pronunciation and had crude understanding of the language, certainly not enough for reasonable conversation. So it was in Israel while the Jews resisted the influx of foreign culture the battle was gradually being lost. The religious aspect of the ruling Sanhedrin the Pharisees was the last hold out. Theyu attempted to keep Hebrew the language of the Jewish world. However the power structure of the Sanhedrin was controlled politically by the Sadduccess which coming from wealthy families welcomed outside sources of revenue and openly embraced the languages of these source of revenue. Therefore in spite of the insistence of the Pharisees to retain Hebrew only scripture reading was actually in Hebrew and this would not be understood by the common man. Greek was the language of the power brokers of the day. Therefore when Jesus went before these members of the Sanhedrin He probably used Greek or Aramaic for their benefit and the benefit of the common man hearing the exchange. The Septuagint was recognized as the Rabbinical translation and commonly used in teaching the Torah to the people. There was an earlier copy of the Old Testament written in Greek about 800 years earlier but it never had the wide spread acceptance with in the Jewish community. Your right Ptolemy Philadelphus was convinced by a high official from his court to commission the work.. I don’t know how I missed that it was underlined. :-) I understand your interest now and share to a degree you curiosity over influences of translation. However I’m satisfied in my heart and spirit that word like Almah were correctly translated in the Septuagint. Because whether Jesus actually read and quoted from it or not, the fact remains the Septuagint was a big enough factor of the day that Jesus could not ignore such a mistranslation had it been wrong. While I’m very familiar with all the arguments I have talked to Hebrew scholars that say the term we use “young woman” as a translation of Hebrew falls short of the real meaning of a (virginal) young woman the connotation the word actually carries in Hebrew. We can only guess at some of the real meanings of Hebrew words and especially what they really meant to the Hebrew speaking populace of the day since the use of Hebrew was extinguish for so long. For that matter one can think of many English words that carry nearly opposite meanings to what they did 40 years ago. “cool’ “gay” “fat” “duh” are just a few that pop into my mind. Thanks for making me get some of this stuff out and dusting it off. I enjoyed an afternoon of study. EdB |
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3 | language Jesus speak | NT general Archive 1 | Alencon | 118982 | ||
Oh yes, such an interesting exchange was incredibly refreshing and I appreciate your patience with me. It had me with reference material spread out all over the room. It was great. Thank you again. |
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