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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92349 | ||
Niclac, I do not see what you see the scripture "clearly says about baptism." You are interpreting the passages according to your theology and training rather than seeing them literally as the sacraments they are with the water and the Spirit being connected with the Spirit as the efficacious and and the water as the instrumental means of grace. The case of Cornelius is clearly a unique case and even that is subject to some interpretation. See also Acts 21:16, where Paul says, descibing his own baptism, Annaias said " Why delay? Get up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." See also Acts 9:17-19. Other similar foreshadowing examples of matter and spirit working together for a healing are Naaman bathing in the river Jordan. If he did it your way he would have insisted God heal him without the bathing in the river and then he would have bathed in the Jordan as a public display of his belief and obedience. Fortunately he took better advice than his own counsul. See also the blind man whom Jesus cured by spitting and making mud that he put on the man's eyes. In either of these cases was it God or the water that healed. Obviously God, but He worked through matter. And that is not even to touch on the typology and forshadowing of baptism seen with Noah and the Flood and the crossing of the Red Sea. See 2 Peter 3:18-22 and 1 Cor 10:2. God did the work, but He used the physical matter of His creation to accomplish His saving work. One should think of the Incarnation in a similar manner. Why did God take on flesh to accomplish do His salvific work? We Catholics are rather old fashioned in some things and perfer to follow the biblical pattern seen in both Testaments. Surely you can respect that if not agree with it at this point. Emmaus |
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2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | TheLord'sChurch | 92361 | ||
Dear Emmaus, I couldn't get over how good you put your word's. I can't seem to get it through to people that the works we do, are really not are works, but God's. We are just being obedient. You said you were Catholic, but I never heard a catholic know the word like that. I disagree on allot of things the Catholics do and preach, but it seems like you know what your talking about when it comes to scripture. And as we very well know there have been false prophets who came in and distorted the word of God Acts 20:29-30, 2 Pet.3:16. You made a comment about Cornelius, and I don't know what question you were answering, but that conversion is pretty clear. Cornelius was the first recorded gentile to be saved and added to the church by God. The reason why the spirit came upon him that way, was for a sign to the jews that were there with Peter,....." and they of the circumcision(the jews) were astonished Acts 10:45. Can any man forbid them water, that these should not be baptized, which have recieved the Holy Ghost as well as we? Acts 10:47...... I am not part of any man made religion, because when you are converted to CHRIST, you are baptized "INTO CHRIST"(Gal.3:27), not a denomination. Paul spoke against denominations, which is the religous decieving word for division(1 Cor. 1:10-16). I am apart of the Lord's church, because the Lord is the only one who can add someone to the church Acts 2:47...But don't get me wrong, we are saved by the blood of Jesus that was given to us freely, but we have to obtain it, by reenacting his death were he shed the blood. (Rom. 6:1-10). I thank you again for speaking the word boldly and hopefully we can study some time. shwnd300@hotmail.com In Christ, Shawn |
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3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92379 | ||
Thank you Shawn. | ||||||
4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | reilly1041 | 92743 | ||
Emmaus, I totally agree with TheLordsChurch's comments. May you never tire of being the Catholic voice on this forum, I'm sure at times it seems lonely! Are there others like you in your Church? reilly |
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5 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92775 | ||
Thank you Reilly. I don't think I am any more representative of the other members of my Parish Church than most of the other members of this forum are of their's. It takes all kinds and as St. Paul says we have "gifts differing." It is my observation that most people, Catholic or Protestant, seem to have little need or desire to understand the how and why of their faith, just believeing and trying to live it is enough for them, without engaging in controversies. They may very well be far ahead of me on the path of sanctification. One thing I know for sure is that everything I have learned has been from other Catholics, some gone from this world more than a millenium and others still laboring in the field. Some of the best teachers and apologists in the field today are converts, which is not at all unusual in Church history, take Paul for example. I just happen to be a cradle Catholic who enjoys the Great Conversation. It enriches my faith as I am forced to dig deeper to find ways to explain it that are understandable to others who come from a different perspective and with different definitions of common terms. Hopefully the exchange enriches them too. I come from a large family that loves to discuss and argue for fun. My wife on the other hand is an only child introvert who does not enjoy much exposure to those type of exchanges and avoids or flees from them if the opportunity presents itself. We compliment each other very well. She by the way entered the Church and was baptized at age 38, which had little to do with me, since I never pressed her on the matter, knowing it would be counter productive. No one was more surprised than me when she announced her intention. Emmaus |
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