Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92163 | ||
Nivlac, Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass and listened to the prayers? Try it sometime. Just listen to the prayers, don't let the unfamiliar actions of the ritual distract you because they are unfamiliar and strange. Among the prayers is one shortly before Holy Communion which says: "May the Body and Blood of Chrit bring us to life everlasting." Now my friend, is that what some call "pleading the blood" or not? The plain fact is that Catholics believe that it is only through the merits of Jesus Christ that anyone is saved. What we differ on is the method of application of that merit. You say it is by believeing and asking Jesus into your heart. We says yes but it is also by the scaraments established by Christ and administered by his Body, the Church which is composed of all those baptized into Christ even you. I am of course presuming you are baptized. It may also be that in soem extraordinary circumstance one may believe and not be able to be baptized and God is not bound only by his sacrament, but we hold that they, especially baptism are the normal channels or instrumental means of applying grace that Jesus himself established and of which His passion and death are the meritorious cause of our salvation by grace. We see Jesus working in the sacraments,not ourselves. For us the sacraments are encounters with Christ. You do not see it that way. I don't say you can't see Jesus. Why would you presume to think or say I do not or can not see Him and encounter Him in the sacraments? For an excellent little book on the subject get: The Sacraments in Scripture; Salvation History Made Present by Tim Gray. Suffice it to say that my faith is in Jesus and the merits of His passion, death and resurrection. Do not fear for me on that count. I just celebrate my faith differently than you do. Try the link below for more detail. I know it will not all be agreeable to you, but you may find some of it so. http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM Emmaus |
||||||
2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92169 | ||
Thanks for asking, I have been to mass several times and yes I have been baptized. I guess we will have to disagree about the merit of the ritual sacraments. I believe Christ death once and for all paid for my sin and the sacraments do not merit salvation indirectly or directly Heb 10:14. I will stick with scripture and trust in it rather than the catechism. I can only leave you with the following verses and take your word as stated above, that your trust is in the Christ and His merit. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Brad |
||||||
3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 92173 | ||
Nivlac, Funny you should mention Titus 3:5, since it dovetails beautifully with John 3:5 both of which refer to baptism. Of course you would have to take the washing and water for exactly what the words say, which I am told is the starting place of exegesis. :-) Emmaus |
||||||
4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92229 | ||
We might see this baptism here differently.I see this as baptism of the Holy Spirit upon the monergestic work of God upon regeneration which occurs just prior to faith.See Eph 1,2. You will recall, that when John the Baptist was performing water baptism he points to the One who will not baptize with water but with the Holy Spirit. This is not a work of course. Additionaly, I do believe it is important to be water baptized as believer, simply because it is a command and a witness to others who do not know Christ. It of course is not meritorius to salvation, which is in harmony with Titus 3:5 and the other passages sighted. Brad | ||||||