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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 90340 | ||
Nivlac5, "The problem with many denominations ie, Catholic, is that they insist unless you belong to that church and are doing its "works" then you are not demonstrating true works that are a result of true saving faith." Please provide documentation from Catholic Church documents that what you have asserted from is actual Catholic teaching? And to what specifically Catholic "works" are you referring? And are you using salvation as a synonym of justification? I think you are reading something into James that is not there. Paul and James are both speaking about faith as examplified by Abraham. The question is how one defines "saving faith". Is is mere intellectual assent or a "decision for Christ" or is it a "faith working in love" (Gal 5:6)? Things that have life move in some manner. That is why things that appear to be dead are often poked to see if they move. If they mover we know there is life. Otherwise we they are seen as dead. Living saving faith moves in loving works. That is what James is saying. Abraham's faith was certainly not static nor a mere intellectual asent nor a mere "decision" for God. Below is official Catholic teacjing on the subject. "CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]" 30. Tit. 3:7. 31. See 1 Cor. 6:11. 32. Eph. 1:13f. 33. Rom. 5:10. 34. Eph. 2:4. 35. C.76, D.IV de cons. 36. Eph. 4:23. 37. See I Cor. 12:11. 38. Rom 5:5. 39. Cf. infra, chap. 10. 40. James 2:17, 20. 41. Gal 5:6, 6:15. 42. Matt. 19:17. 43. Luke 15:22; c.31, D.II de poenit. 44. Rom. 3:24; 5:1. 45. Heb. 11:6. 46. Rom. 11:6. The Council of Trent on Justification Emmaus |
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2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 91246 | ||
Emmaus, you asked for Catholic documentation on the issue of soteriology. Please explain the following statements. Is one saved and justified by Christ alone, faith alone , grace alone or does one need additional "help" i.e sacraments, works that can only be given by one church body?The bible is clear, one is saved by Christ alone and not by any church or institution. That begs the question, are we trusting in what was once done for us by Christ or in the liturgy, tradition, sacraments of a Church? "All our righteousness is like filthy rags" Is 64:6 Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. The following is but one of many examples on an istitution that says otherwise. 15. "The second part of the Catechism explains how God's SALVATION, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two). " To view the context, please visit http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/prologue.html#STRUCTURE 95. "'It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the SALVATION of souls.'[DV 10 # 3.]" To view the context, please visit http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/profess3.html#INTERPRETATION I will still be sending you additional documentation. A video specificaly, but have yet to receive it. Secure in Him, Brad |
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3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 91310 | ||
Nivlac5, "Please explain the following statements. Is one saved and justified by Christ alone, faith alone, grace alone or does one need additional "help" i.e sacraments, works that can only be given by one church body?(Actually the Catholic Church recognize the Trinitarian baptism of other Christian groups.) The bible is clear, one is saved by Christ alone and not by any church or institution." You did not read far enough in the Catechism. If you had your would have read the following (emphasis mine, so you do not miss the main point): " The Sacramental Economy 1076. "The Church was made manifest to the world on the day of Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.[Cf. SC 6; LG 2.] The gift of the Spirit ushers in a new era in the 'dispensation of the mystery' the age of the Church, during which Christ manifests, makes present, and communicates his work of salvation through the liturgy of his Church, 'until he comes.'[1 Cor 11:26 .] In this age of the Church Christ now lives and acts in and with his Church, in a new way appropriate to this new age. He acts through the sacraments in what the common Tradition of the East and the West calls 'the sacramental economy'; this is the communication (or 'dispensation') of the fruits of Christ's Paschal mystery in the celebration of the Church's 'sacramental' liturgy. It is therefore important first to explain this 'sacramental dispensation'. The nature and essential features of liturgical celebration will then appear more clearly ."... 1116. "Sacraments are 'powers that comes forth' from the Body of Christ,[Cf. Lk 5:17 ; Lk 6:19 ; Lk 8:46 .] which is ever-living and life-giving. They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church. They are 'the masterworks of God' in the new and everlasting covenant." 1119. "Forming 'as it were, one mystical person' with Christ the head, the Church acts in the sacraments as 'an organically structured priestly community.'[LG 11; cf. Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (1943).] Through Baptism and Confirmation the pRiestly people is enabled to celebrate the liturgy, while those of the faithful 'who have received Holy Orders, are appointed to nourish the Church with the word and grace of God in the name of Christ.'[LG 11 # 2.]" The Sacraments of Salvation 1127. "Celebrated worthily in faith, the sacraments confer the grace that they signify.[Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1605; DS 1606.] THEY ARE EFFICAIOUS BECAUSE IN THEM CHRIST HIMSELF IS AT WORK: IT IS HE WHO BAPTIZES, HE WHO ACTS IN HIS SACRAMENTS IN ORDER TO COMMUNICATE THE GRACE THAT EACH SACRAMENT SIGNIFIES. The Father always hears the prayer of his Son's Church which, in the epiclesis of each sacrament, expresses her faith in the power of the Spirit. As fire transforms into itself everything it touches, so the Holy Spirit transforms into the divine life whatever is subjected to his power. " 1128. "This is the meaning of the Church's affirmation[Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1608.] that the sacraments act ex opere operato (literally: 'by the very fact of the action's being performed'), i.e., BY VIRTUE OF THE SAVING WORK OF CHRIST, ACCOMPLISHED ONCE FOR ALL. It follows that 'THE SACRAMENT IS NOT WROUGHT BY THE RIGHTEWOUSNESS OF EITHER THE CELEBRANT OR THE RECIPEINT, BUT BY THE POWER OF GOD'[St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III, 68, 8.] From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them." 1129. "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.[Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1604.] 'Sacramental grace' is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature[Cf. 2Pet 1:4.] by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior." Emmaus |
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4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | TheLord'sChurch | 91311 | ||
Dear Friend, The bible never mentions "ALONE". If it did it would contradict itself. We are saved when we follow exactly what the bible says to do and be sure not to leave nothing out. See, the church i.e. the body of christ was never set up by men, but God, so therefore the church doesn't save you, it is Christ that saves you. |
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5 | Were you addressing me or Nivlac? | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 91312 | ||
TLC, Were you addressing me or Nivlac? Where did I say anything about "alone" other than in my quote of Nivlac's post to me? Emmaus |
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6 | Were you addressing me or Nivlac? | NT general Archive 1 | TheLord'sChurch | 91319 | ||
I'm sorry it must of been Nivlac, I was refering to. | ||||||