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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 90340 | ||
Nivlac5, "The problem with many denominations ie, Catholic, is that they insist unless you belong to that church and are doing its "works" then you are not demonstrating true works that are a result of true saving faith." Please provide documentation from Catholic Church documents that what you have asserted from is actual Catholic teaching? And to what specifically Catholic "works" are you referring? And are you using salvation as a synonym of justification? I think you are reading something into James that is not there. Paul and James are both speaking about faith as examplified by Abraham. The question is how one defines "saving faith". Is is mere intellectual assent or a "decision for Christ" or is it a "faith working in love" (Gal 5:6)? Things that have life move in some manner. That is why things that appear to be dead are often poked to see if they move. If they mover we know there is life. Otherwise we they are seen as dead. Living saving faith moves in loving works. That is what James is saying. Abraham's faith was certainly not static nor a mere intellectual asent nor a mere "decision" for God. Below is official Catholic teacjing on the subject. "CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]" 30. Tit. 3:7. 31. See 1 Cor. 6:11. 32. Eph. 1:13f. 33. Rom. 5:10. 34. Eph. 2:4. 35. C.76, D.IV de cons. 36. Eph. 4:23. 37. See I Cor. 12:11. 38. Rom 5:5. 39. Cf. infra, chap. 10. 40. James 2:17, 20. 41. Gal 5:6, 6:15. 42. Matt. 19:17. 43. Luke 15:22; c.31, D.II de poenit. 44. Rom. 3:24; 5:1. 45. Heb. 11:6. 46. Rom. 11:6. The Council of Trent on Justification Emmaus |
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2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 90392 | ||
Emmaus, thanks for you response. We seem to differ on what it means to be justified before God. Please consider John John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. John 5:22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, John 5:23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. In vs 24 it is clear, those who know the Son(received/believed in Who He is, and what He did on the Cross for all their personal sins) Will have eternal life, will not face the judgement of condemnation, have passed from death to life) In short justification is being declared NOT GUILTY before the Holy and Righteous God, Who alone saves. Heb 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." You mention that faith is the begining of salvation. In one sense this is true but from the legal sense, we are declared not quilty at the moment of faith. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Now, works will follow. Why? They are the outpouring of true saving faith, but do not save or merit your salvation. So we are justified once and for all by the finished work of Christ on the Cross and then we are also sanctified(set apart for His service) and then glorified by Him. See Romans 8, Galatians. You asked for examples of Catholic "works" that are required. There are plenty, alms, penance, come to mind. I do have a great audio/video that documents all this and as soon as I get it back from a friend, I can give you more exact and plenary examples. Again, thanks for you response. I would add that the glorious good news of the Gospel that declares us not quilty and forever forgiven is what gives us the joy to serve Him out of gratitude for what He has done for us. In Christ, brad. |
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3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 90393 | ||
Nivlac5, "You asked for examples of Catholic "works" that are required. There are plenty, alms, penance, come to mind. I do have a great audio/video that documents all this and as soon as I get it back from a friend, I can give you more exact and plenary examples...I would add that the glorious good news of the Gospel that declares us not quilty and forever forgiven is what gives us the joy to serve Him out of gratitude for what He has done for us." You seem to be under the misapprehension that Catholics do these things to be justified. They do not. Did you even read the Catholic doctrine on justification that I posted? Ands the last time I looked good Protestants give alms and also do penance for wrongs they have done, because it is the Biblical thing to do. May I suggest that if you want an unbiased understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches you go to Catholic documents. At least then, whether you agree with the real teaching or not, you won't get distorted second hand opinions and inaccurate represntations of Catholic doctrine. Emmaus |
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4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 90397 | ||
So we agree on the issue of justification as I spelled it out in the last post. The sources of Catholic doctrine that I mention do document from original catholic sources. As I said, once I receive the info. I would be glad to pass it on. What a joy it is to know that we are forgiven and not guilty before Him. | ||||||