Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Churchianity to be answered: | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 8102 | ||
Prayon: Actually, I would debate that Jesus did come to establish some form of organized religion. I am not arguing for an all-encompassing body such as the Roman Catholic Church or any particular denomination; however, Jesus did come to establish a CHURCH, not a disorganized group of individuals who just happen to be saved by God's grace on the basis of faith in Christ alone. Hebrews 10:25 tells us not to forsake the assembly. It is a command in Scripture, not a mere "helpful hint." Yes, there are bad (dare I say APOSTATE?) churches out there, and obviously those are not congregations with whom we should be affiliating for spritual fellowship and growth. However, the "Lone Ranger" model of Christianity is found nowhere in the New Testament. In addition, your paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is faulty. The very thrust of Paul's argument is that nationality and social status are not distinctions recognized within the body of believers, not that one can either fellowship or not and be following God. As you have quoted, we are members of one another, and just as the hand doesn't accomplish a whole lot without the feet, so the Christian who chooses to isolate himself from his brethren is not functioning properly. Now that having been said, Christ is the "head of the church" and the "chief cornerstone" and the vine of which we are the branches. One of the main problems that we do see among leaders (and congregations that follow them) is forgetting of their place and thinking that they are the head or the hinge upon which the church turns. When this is the case, we have the age-old "cult of personality" problem. --Joe! |
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2 | Churchianity to be answered: | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 8241 | ||
Dear Joe! I take from the above post that you believe the denominational system is the safeguard mechanism to protect us from 'rouge pastors.' That organization is the balancing factor to keep us from the vagaries of unorthodoxy. I take issue that 'assembly' means extra-church organization. "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." Matthew 18:20 NASB. 'gathered together' is the same as 'assemble.' It is enough to be considered holy fellowship. 'The more the merrier' is true in a human sense. The more gathered, the potential for straying from the Spirit is multiplied. (Even though a moderation factor exists, so also a dilution factor is evident.) For instance, could this Scripture be extrapolated to say, "For where two or three thousand have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." I would say NOT! After a certain point (depending on the shepherd), A human organization dilutes the moving of the Spirit. Though some may grouse, I quote from a hymn, "My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus' blood and righteousness; I dare not trust the sweetest frame, But wholly lean on Jesus' name. On Christ the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand." Joe, some human orgaization may lend stability, but man tends to depend on it like a drug. You may be immune to this dependency, but most are not. Rather than 'living stones' in the structure of the church, they become dead bricks, mortared together by man's authority rather than the bonding of the Spirit of God. Blessings in Jesus' name, charis |
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3 | Churchianity to be answered: | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 8243 | ||
Actually, I attend a non-denominational church, but I myself am not anti-denominational. I think most true followers of Christ in denominations would not say, "Upon the (insert denom here) I stand." My point was that the church was established by Christ, and that the visible church does operate best when it is organized. And it indeed does keep out heresy when operating correctly. Imagine where we would be if in the first five centuries of Christianity we did not have councils which recognized Gentile believers, fixed the canon of Scripture, codified the Trinity, recognized original sin as a doctrine of the Bible and recognized the need for God's grace, etc. etc. All were done by organized groups of believers to resist Gnosticism, Pelagianism, Arianism, etc. Also, the Reformers acted as an organized group as well, giving us back our Bible and reacquinting the world with justification theough faith alone in Christ alone. God indeed works theough organized groups of believers to keep the faith pure. "Every man for himself" leads to chaos. Just check the last verse of Judges. --Joe! |
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4 | Churchianity to be answered: | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 8244 | ||
Dear Joe, 'Alternate History' is not my thing, but I still believe that the church would be better off without the 'super-organized' religion we now have. In many ways, Jesus has been 'organized out' of Christianity. Some organization (order) is called for in the Bible, I grant. But any 'name before Christ' is not His will. That is the definition of denomination. A 'descriptor' that modifies the Proper Noun of Jesus Christ. Joe, (and Forum), I am not anti-organization, but I am against a non-Biblical organization beyond the local church. I cannot get from "In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25 NASB, that we need a present-day 'king' (pontiff, bishop) of a supra-church organization to keep us in line. The Spirit of God is well able to do the same thing. (If we allow Him) In Jesus' name, charis |
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