Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do we go directly to Heaven? | Bible general Archive 1 | David_24597 | 72175 | ||
EdB, I got that information about crucifixion from a website. I don't remember which one though. They did a study where some students agreed to be tied to crosses in the same position that Jesus was crucufied. No problems with breathing. They began to have problems with their internal organs though. Do a google search if you're really interested in knowing more about this. Anybody who reads John 20:17 can see that you are attempting to rewrite scripture here. Read it for yourself. Then read Luke 24:38-39 and see that they COULD touch Him then. If Mary couldn't touch Him right after His resurrection because He had not yet presented Himself to the Father yet later on that same day His disciples COULD touch Him, then He must have gone to heaven in between the two times that Mary saw Him and His disciples saw Him. Then 40 days later He went to heaven in front of everybody. Then there was the time he saw Paul on the road to Damascus. There were obvoiusly times when He was coming and going between earth and heaven. This teaching in John 20:17 does in no way deny His ascension 40 days later. I did not say that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was not true. I said it was a parable and not to be taken literally. Let's consider your version of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus: 1) I assume that you believe that they were "disembodied" spirits or souls? What effect would a hot dry place have on such a being? For that matter what would a couple drops of water do to this creature? In order for these physical things to have any effect of the rich man, he would have to be "in the flesh". He could not be a "disembodied" spirit/soul. 2) Consider the other texts I supplied in the above 2 part post. Specifically Ps. 146:3 and Eccl. 9:5-6. The thoughts and emotions of the dead are "perished". How could the dead have a conversation between themselves if they are unable to think or feel? 3) If the saved in "Abraham's bosom" all accompanied Jesus at His ascension then why is King David still in his grave and has not ascended into heaven? Acts 2:29 and 34 Anyway, why don't you read my post up there and check out the references I supplied on what the Bible teaches about the state of the dead. You will see that they don't match up with your version of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And, also, I havent't taken II Cor. 5:8 out of context. Read verses 6, 9, 10, 15 and 16. He is talking about the lusts of the flesh here. Can't you see that? Also compare verse 17 here with 7:1. There are plenty of Bible verse that teach that to follow our fleshly desires will seperate us from God. Do yourself a favor Ed. Do a little research into every verse you can find in the Bible concerning the state of the dead. There is quite a thread to be found there if you're interested. Don't let your indoctrinated beliefs influence your thinking. Let the Bible teach you what it is really saying. I can tell that you haven't really done that. I urge you to try it for once. It may take you a few days to look into, but I think you will benefit from it. If you have a good concordance, check out the words sleep/sleepeth, awake/awaken/awakened, dead/death, grave, resurrection, etc. I think you will be surprised what you will find. |
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2 | Do we go directly to Heaven? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 72178 | ||
David Have you been hanging around Jehovah Witnesses you sure sound like a advocate for soul sleep. I'll tell you what I tried to explain to you what occurred on the cross as documented by the bible, secular history, the medical community, and researchers but if you want to believe a bunch of guys on the internet tying each on a cross in an effort to duplicate actual crucifixion okay! They sound like trustworthy experts. I also thank you for your advice to study the Bible, that is what I intend to do as it seems more profitable than to try to reason with you. EdB |
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3 | Do we go directly to Heaven? | Bible general Archive 1 | David_24597 | 72182 | ||
I'm sorry. I thought you would be interested in an intellectual study of what the Bible might say about the state of the dead. If you want to insult me and be sarcastic and ignore the texts I supplied for you then that's up to you. I wish you well anyway. God bless and I hope you will come to the truth soon. You won't listen to me about it so I guess this discussion is at an end. Sorry. And no, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. I believe that Jesus is my Creator (not a created being). |
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4 | Do we go directly to Heaven? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 72186 | ||
David I think you threw the first insult by telling how I needed to study. To me that was an attempt to insinuate that you were better studied than me. If I took it wrong I apologize. Also I would love to have an intellectual decision on this subject, however your exegesis of John 20:17 is incorrect as supportted by Eph 4:8 Hebrews 9:12-14 and the Greek language itself. I tried to point that out and you refused to accept it. I also tried to show you that what Jesus said in the parable of Luke 16 followed the accepted teaching of the death and the dwelling place of the dead in Jewish culture. Therefore if Luke 16 is incorrect then Jesus either was not aware this was the common teaching or he sought to reinforce a false teaching. To disprove this you used proof texts in an attempt to prove your point ripping them out of context and violating their real meaning. The statement, “If the saved in "Abraham's bosom" all accompanied Jesus at His ascension then why is King David still in his grave and has not ascended into heaven? Acts 2:29 and 34” . Tells me you either do not know or do not understand the relationship of the body and soul upon death as defined by orthodox Christianity. Your argument violates the last 2000 years of teaching within Christianity and to me is not worth discussing. I attempted to discuss crucifixion with you but you cite me some students on the web tried this. What about recorded history. Rome and crucifixion wasn’t so long ago that we don’t have any record secular information on the subject. Many Roman historians have written on the subject. For me to throw out all the legitimate research that has been done on this subject in favor of some students on the internet would to me show I do not consider the subject of value. I think it best we let this subject drop. As I said I thank you for your advice to continue to study the Bible. EdB |
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5 | Do we go directly to Heaven? | Bible general Archive 1 | David_24597 | 72187 | ||
EdB, read what the OT prophets have said concerning the state of the dead. Then tell me what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus means. Until then I agree that there is no reason for us to continue this discussion. | ||||||