Subject: Do we go directly to Heaven? |
Bible Note: EdB, I got that information about crucifixion from a website. I don't remember which one though. They did a study where some students agreed to be tied to crosses in the same position that Jesus was crucufied. No problems with breathing. They began to have problems with their internal organs though. Do a google search if you're really interested in knowing more about this. Anybody who reads John 20:17 can see that you are attempting to rewrite scripture here. Read it for yourself. Then read Luke 24:38-39 and see that they COULD touch Him then. If Mary couldn't touch Him right after His resurrection because He had not yet presented Himself to the Father yet later on that same day His disciples COULD touch Him, then He must have gone to heaven in between the two times that Mary saw Him and His disciples saw Him. Then 40 days later He went to heaven in front of everybody. Then there was the time he saw Paul on the road to Damascus. There were obvoiusly times when He was coming and going between earth and heaven. This teaching in John 20:17 does in no way deny His ascension 40 days later. I did not say that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was not true. I said it was a parable and not to be taken literally. Let's consider your version of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus: 1) I assume that you believe that they were "disembodied" spirits or souls? What effect would a hot dry place have on such a being? For that matter what would a couple drops of water do to this creature? In order for these physical things to have any effect of the rich man, he would have to be "in the flesh". He could not be a "disembodied" spirit/soul. 2) Consider the other texts I supplied in the above 2 part post. Specifically Ps. 146:3 and Eccl. 9:5-6. The thoughts and emotions of the dead are "perished". How could the dead have a conversation between themselves if they are unable to think or feel? 3) If the saved in "Abraham's bosom" all accompanied Jesus at His ascension then why is King David still in his grave and has not ascended into heaven? Acts 2:29 and 34 Anyway, why don't you read my post up there and check out the references I supplied on what the Bible teaches about the state of the dead. You will see that they don't match up with your version of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And, also, I havent't taken II Cor. 5:8 out of context. Read verses 6, 9, 10, 15 and 16. He is talking about the lusts of the flesh here. Can't you see that? Also compare verse 17 here with 7:1. There are plenty of Bible verse that teach that to follow our fleshly desires will seperate us from God. Do yourself a favor Ed. Do a little research into every verse you can find in the Bible concerning the state of the dead. There is quite a thread to be found there if you're interested. Don't let your indoctrinated beliefs influence your thinking. Let the Bible teach you what it is really saying. I can tell that you haven't really done that. I urge you to try it for once. It may take you a few days to look into, but I think you will benefit from it. If you have a good concordance, check out the words sleep/sleepeth, awake/awaken/awakened, dead/death, grave, resurrection, etc. I think you will be surprised what you will find. |