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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | so, you're saying that they go to hell? | Bible general Archive 1 | wannabe | 37887 | ||
TRINITY... The CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA claims: A Dogma so mysterious presupposes a Divine revelation." Catholic Scholars Karl Rahner and Herbert Vorgrimler state in their Theological Dictionary: "The Trinity is a mystery...in the strict sense...which could not be known without revelation, and even after revelation cannot become wholly intelligible." However, contending that the Trinity is such a confusing mystery, it must have come from divine revelation creates another major problem. Why? Because Divine revelation itself does not allow of such a view of God: "God is not a God of confusion."- 1Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS) Now, would God be responsible for a doctrine about himself that is so confusing that even Hebrew, Greek and Latin Scholars cannot really explain it? Why did so few of the educated Jewish religious leaders recognize Jesus as the Messiah? His faithful disciples were, instead, humble farmers, fishermen, tax collectors, housewives. Those common people were so certain of what Jesus taught about God that they could teach it to others and were even willing to die for their belief.-Mathew 15:1-9; 21:23-32,43 23:13-36 John 7:45-49;Acts 4:13 ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION: There is no evidence of any sacred writer even suspected the existance of the Trinity, it is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers. Trinity: How did the Doctrine develop? Many think it formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. Not totally correct. It did lay the ground work for later trinitarian theology, but at that council there was no mention of the Holy Spirit being part of a godhead. Many years went by and lots of arguments on trying to develop the idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman Emperor Constantine summoned all Bishops to Nicaea[*Constantine was a PAGAN politician who worshiped the unconquered sun,converted to a christian when he got older and was baptized when he was dying] 300, a fraction of the total, actually attended. THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA relates: Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed...the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the Creed issued by the council, of one substance with the Father...Overawed by the Emperor, the Bishops ,with 2 exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination. After 2 months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those that said Jesus was God. But Why? Constantine understood that the religious division was a threat to his Empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain. None of the Bishops at Nicaea promoted a trinity, however. They decided on the nature of Jesus and not the role of the Holy Spirit. Debates continued for decades. Emperor Theodosius was in charge now [so to speak] He established the creed of the council at Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. to clarify the formula. That council agreed to place the Holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time Christendom's Trinity began to come into focus. Was Theodosious a Godly person? Many opposed what was happening, Theodosious decided against them and they suffered violent persecution. It was only in later centuries the Trinity was formulated into set creeds. It was defined more fully with the Athanasian creed. Athanasius was a CLERGYMAN who supported Constantine at Nicaea. However Athanasius did not compose this creed. The creed was unknown to the Eastern church until the 12th century. Scholars in the 17th century had agreed that the creed was not written by Athanasius(died373)but was composed in southern France during the 5th century as well as being influenced there and in Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries and was used in the Liturgy in the Church in Germany in the 9th century and later on in Rome. Jesus and his followers spoke of an Apostasy with its "LAWLESS CLERGY CLASS." 2Peter 2:1; 1John4:1-3 Jude 3,4 (Acts 20:29,30 JB) (2Timothy4:3,4 JB) Throughout the Ancient world as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads was common. The influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece and Rome in Centuries before during and after Christ. In the preface to EDWARD GIBSONS HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY, we read, if Paganism was conquered by christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF RELIGION and ETHICS notes: "In Indian Religion, e,g.,we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus...nor is it only historical religions that we find God viewed as a Trinity. *You can do the research, its endless. |
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2 | so, you're saying that they go to hell? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 37900 | ||
"Now, would God be responsible for a doctrine about himself that is so confusing that even Hebrew, Greek and Latin Scholars cannot really explain it?" Well, first of all, the question itself is invalid, because we are not talking about a doctrine that God created, but rather a doctrine concerning the nature of God Himself. Since God did not create Himself (He just IS), the question is whether he eternally exists as one being in three persons or not. I can explain the Trinity in a single paragraph: The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. There you go! The verse in 1 Corinthians 14 does not refer to the doctrines of God, but on church order. Taking the verse in its context precludes it from referring directly to the Trinity, whether it is a confusing doctrine or not. You quoted: "ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION: There is no evidence of any sacred writer even suspected the existance of the Trinity, it is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers." Well, the Encyclopedia of Religion is simply wrong. Your reference to the Encyclopedia Brittanica seems to be your own paraphrase and not a direct quote. In any case, the first person to actually use the word "Trinity" was Tertullian, to describe a doctrine which had been in existence for quite some time. Problem with your view that the Trinity was invented at Constantinople is that Tertullian died about a century before the Council of Nicaea was convened, which itself was convened over fifty years before Constantinople. The references to triads of gods is invalid, because that is not what the Trinity teaches. Are you seriously saying that Christianity was influenced by an Indian culture with whom it had virtually no contact? So in all of your research, please tell me what other religions hold to one God eternally existing in three persons. While you are "searching for the truth," you might want to check out a brand new book by John Hannah entitled _Our Legacy: The History of Christian Doctrine_. It documents quite well the doctrine of the Trinity and how it was recognized by the earliest church fathers in their writings. The idea that someone came along later and invented it is simply bad history. --Joe! |
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3 | so, you're saying that they go to hell? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 37910 | ||
Greetings Joe! Great answer my friend! I know you alread know this, but for the sake of the Forum allow me to make a point through you! :-) Saying that the Trinity is a false doctrine simply because other religions had a similiar (though as you pointed out they aren't really similiar) belief is ike saying that the doctrine of God is false because other religions believe in a god. Similarities in beliefs do not necessarily indicate dependance, nor do similarities in beliefs necessarily indicate falsity. What are we going to say, God didn't really love His creation because a pagan religion said that their god loved creation? It is absurd logic! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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