Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15416 | ||
Greetings Forum! There was a thread recently which dealt with Eternal Security. The position of most on the forum seemed to be that the relationship between a believer and Christ can never be severed. If that is the case, how do we explain these three passages in particular? 1) 1 Cor. 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 2) Col. 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. 3) 2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I realize that many of us will approach these passage from different theological perspectives. My point here is not to argue the passages. I would simply like to hear how some from different perspectives deal with these passages. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 15520 | ||
Excellent question for a discussion, Tim! 1) 1 Corinthians 15:1 - Some people may have a "shallow" faith. They can be convinced that the Gospel is true, but they have no love or zeal for God, Christ or righteousness. True believers "hold fast" to the Gospel! (2 Cor. 13:5, 1 John 2:24, 2 John 9). 2) Colossians 1:21 - 'once alienated and enemies' refers to being separated from God because of our sin. Unbelievers hate God and resent His holy standard because they love wickedness (John 3:19,20; 15:18,24,25). And God "hates all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5). Being reconciled is referring to the sinner's changed relationship to God. 3) 2 Peter 1:10 - In other words, if a person pursues the spiritual qualities mentioned in 2 Peter 1:5-8, then they are affirming to themself that they were indeed called to salvation since they bear this spiritual fruit, and they are assured that they were chosen to salvation because of the presence of these qualities in them. (Romans 8:30, 1 Peter 2:21, 1 Peter 1:2) And of course, I also believe like you do, my friend (in an Arminian way in regards to election). However, I am one to believe that our security is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit forever. Your Brother in Christ, Nolan |
||||||
3 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15554 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Thanks for the input! Just a couple of questions! 1) 1 Cor. 15:1-2: Would viewing these indiviuals as people with a shallow, unsaving faith due justice to how they are described here? Paul specifically says they are "...being saved", the same description he uses in 1 Cor. 1:18 when contrasting those who are perishing and those who are being saved. 2) Col. 1:21-23: I fully agree with your comments here, but what about the "if" of v. 22? Is there a condition attached to the relationship described in these three verses? 3) 2 Peter 1:10-11: Again, I would agree with your comments, but what about the "if"? Peter says that if you do these things you will never fall, but what if you don't do these things? If one cannot fall, why warn against it? Your Brother in Christ, (Even if you do make BAD food jokes!) Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 15615 | ||
Tim, 1) (1 Cor. 15:1-2) I never said that they should be viewed as "shallow". I simply stated that "shallow" Christians are a reality and this explanation would be one to justify "believing in vain". Notice Paul says "UNLESS".. Therefore, Paul is not viewing these people as "shallow", he is simply reinforcing his "if you hold fast" by completing the 'if/then else' structure here with an 'else' option. I am convinced that the people who Paul is speaking to are already saved. As far as "being saved" is concerned, either you are saved or you are not. There is no in-between. 2) (Col. 1:21-23) I do not see an "if" in v. 22, but I most definitely see one in verse 23. True believers will not defect from the Gospel, but remain solid on Christ who is the only foundation (1 Cor. 3:11). "IF" is not used as a 'condition' here, it is simply stating that 'by continuing in the faith, He will present you holy and blameless and above reproach in His sight.' If a 'believer' does not continue in this way, then they were never really apprehended by the Holy Spirit to begin with. Would you like to discuss the perseverance of the saints? 3) (2 Peter 1:10-11) Again, like Paul, Peter here is not using "IF" as a conditional statement, but saying that 'When you do these things, you will never stumble!' True believers in Jesus Christ will gain the qualities expressed in vv. 5-8, and "IF" in v. 10 is a reflection back to v. 9, which states that one who lacks the qualities in vv. 5-8 is shortsighted, etc, etc.. I interpret such verses as a 'challenge' towards maturity, not as a conditional structure warning against apostasy. Blessings, Nolan (As for Bad food jokes, I will not take the blame for that one.) |
||||||
5 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15619 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Okay! I'll let you off of the hook for the food jokes! :-) Aren't "if's" always conditional statements. Even those who believe that "ei" can sometimes be translated as "since" still believe that the statements are conditonal. They just say that the condition is assumed to be true. On this point, I'm not entirely convinced. Assuming a point for the sake of argument is not the same as saying that it is in fact a reality. Thus, I would avoid using "since" to translate "ei". Maybe you know of some examples that I'm not aware of, but I don't know of any verses where "ei" must be translated as "since". My personal opinion is that "since" has been adopted by some scholars to avoid the implications of the statements. One note of interest: 2 Pet. 1:10 actually doesn't even have an "if" in the Greek text. It literally says, "doing these things, you will not ever fall". So, the case can definitely be made that there is no conditional statement in this passage. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
6 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Makarios | 15621 | ||
Dear Tim, Of course, you realize that one who does not believe in eternal security could use these very arguments and verses to help substantiate their position. :) I have not been one to take these verses in a "conditional" sense, but more as a 'challenge' in self-application. However, I believe that the Bible is clear about one's eternal security, even in light of these passages and Heb. 6:4.. Your Brother in Christ, Nolan |
||||||