Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15416 | ||
Greetings Forum! There was a thread recently which dealt with Eternal Security. The position of most on the forum seemed to be that the relationship between a believer and Christ can never be severed. If that is the case, how do we explain these three passages in particular? 1) 1 Cor. 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 2) Col. 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. 3) 2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I realize that many of us will approach these passage from different theological perspectives. My point here is not to argue the passages. I would simply like to hear how some from different perspectives deal with these passages. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 15498 | ||
Dear Tim, My reply is more of a question than an answer. Sorry. I'm trying to figure it out, too. I'm only going to reference 1 Cor 15:1 here. Anyway, is the following understanding possible and/or reasonable? We know that when Paul wrote his letters to the churches, that they (the letters) were circulated from house to house (in fact, the churches did, too), congregation to congregation. They did not have the huge edific...uh, buildings (I can't spell worth a flip) that we have nowadays. The meeting places, back then as now, were made up of both believers and non-believers in Christ. What I am saying is that, although the letter is addressed to 'the church at Corinth, those sanctified, saints by calling', there were still unbelievers and undecided at their meetings, weren't there? How else would they hear the gospel message? Could Paul be addressing them, too? Or could Paul be addressing people that said they believed concerning the facts of the gospel but still kept living the same old way? (The church of God at Corinth SHOULD NOT be a blueprint for the modern church) In other words, they believed the facts of the gospel but they did not have the body of the New Testament writings to show them how Christ's death, burial, and resurrection should be 'lived out.' That being said, see my modification to the verse in parentheses. Note: I AM NOT TRYING TO REWRITE IT, just understand it. Would it be proper to look at this verse in the light of: Now, brothers (is this fellow believers or Jewish brothers?), I want to remind you (all, professing believers, unbelievers, and undecided) of the gospel I preached to you (all) which you (professing believers) received and on which you (believers) have taken your (believers) stand. By this gospel you (anyone who hears) are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you (hearing the truth of the gospel - vs. 3 and 4 AND put faith in it, let it change your life). Otherwise, you (anyone who just hears) have believed (said you believed but never put faith in it) in vain. Please don't crucify me here. I admit the text may not allow for this understanding at all. I'm just trying to understand it too. I feel, as you know, that John uses the same literary device (an editorial we) in 1 John. There he says in verse 1:3 'our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.' Then he turns around and says a couple of verses later 'if we say that we have fellowship with Him (in fact, he just did) and yet walk in darkness (unbelief about Christ), we lie and do not practice the truth.' We (you and I) know that John didn't lie and did practice the truth. What do you think, Tim? In Christ, Bill Mc |
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3 | Eternal Security? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15518 | ||
Greetings Bill Mc! Don't worry, I haven't crucified anyone in a long time! :-) The only problem I would have with your exegesis is that it requires a rather random change of reference. How would anyone know which you was who? Plus, the context plainly says that they are being saved, so it could not refer to unbelievers. V. 1 also refers to them as having received and taken their stand upon this Gospel. Concerning 1 John 1:3, John describes a real fellowship. But, in v. 6, John describes individuals who say they have fellowship, but don't. So, I don't think 1 John would support this view. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | What is 'being saved' here? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 15525 | ||
Dear Tim, Thanks for the reply. It was a thought. A little convoluted maybe, but still a thought. One important consideration though, is the word 'saved.' My studies have led me to believe that salvation or deliverance is a 3-fold process. I believe that my spirit is saved (delivered from the penalty of sin - spiritual death) at conversion. My human spirit was united with Christ's divine Spirit which is spiritual life. I believe that my soul (mind, will, and emotions) is in a process of being saved (delivered from the power of sin - sanctification). This is where God is renewing my mind with His Word to conform my behavior to the truth of His Spirit in me. And I believe that one day my body will be saved (delivered from the presence of sin - resurrection). It sure needs it. But, my true identity, who I am, is determined by my birth in Christ. That is who I truly am and therefore, if I physically die, I will be absent from my body and present with the Lord. So I am, at the deepest level of my being, truly saved (past tense). I am also, in my behavior, being saved (present tense). And one day (soon I hope), my body will be saved (future tense). Do you feel that any of this might apply to Paul's use of the term "being saved"? In Him, Bill Mc |
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5 | What is 'being saved' here? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15533 | ||
Greetings Bill Mc! I'm not sure! One point that I might use against my exegesis is that "saved" is in v. 2 is actually a present, passive, verb. So, a better translation would be, "you are being saved". What then is the significance of the the present tense in this verse? I have heard some say that this could be a reference to santification rather than salvation. The only problem is that I don't know of any passages where "saved" is used in that way. Another possible "out" would be to question what "belived in vain" means. Does that mean lost or something else? However, from my point of view, the simplest explanation is what it appears to be saying. This would fit well with John 15, where abiding is the issue. Thanks for the thoughts! (Whooper! Groan) :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | What do you think of 1 Cor 1:18? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 15547 | ||
Hi Tim, Without straying too far from your subject (please forgive me), what about 1 Cor 1:18? Do you think that this in any way substantiates the, as I put it, 'soul salvation' of being (progressively saved)? Thanks, Bill Mc |
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7 | What do you think of 1 Cor 1:18? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15552 | ||
Greetings Bill! I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I did a quick look at how Paul uses the word "save" throughout 1 and 2 Corinthians, but there doesn't seem to be any specific pattern. Sometimes he uses aorist (past tense), sometimes he uses future, and sometimes he uses present. Personally, I view salvation is a similar way to you. It includes regeneration (past), santification (present), and glorification (future). So, Paul may simply use different tenses depending upon how he is looking at salvation. In 1 Cor. 1:18 and 15:2, it may simply be that since we are living, we are being saved. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | What do you think of 1 Cor 1:18? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 15555 | ||
Dear Tim, thanks for the response. I'll let this one go. The only other meaning that crossed my mind was not a 'progressive' salvation for individuals but, rather, a progressive 'saving' of mankind down through history. Possibly, "but to all the people who are being and will be saved as the generations pass, it is the power of God." I don't know. But thanks, brother, for your input, critique, gentle spirit, and even for your hard questions. Keep contending for the faith. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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9 | What do you think of 1 Cor 1:18? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 15562 | ||
Greetings Bill! This is what I love about an indepth discussion, one must really think. I have learned a lot! Thanks for your questions and input! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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