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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Please explain Revelation 14:12 ? | Rev 14:1 | Norrie | 83986 | ||
I'm kinda doing this as an intermediary. A friend is asking this so I thought I'd get some good replies. :) Here's her answer: There seems to be a contradiction, but I think it is not a real contradiction, I will see what you or others think.... Revelation 14:1-5 does show the saints of God who were faithful to the Lamb of God just before Jesus comes, following Him whithersoever He goes. The seal of God is in their foreheads (compare to Revelation 7:1-10), which seal has the name of God, His office and territory. That is what a seal is. This seal shows that they are God's. This seal means that they worship God, and do not receive the mark of the Beast, or worship the Beast, etc. (See: Revelation 13:16-18) The message that they proclaimed was a pure message (they are virgins) described in Revelation 14:6-11. Then verse 12 says, "Here is the patience of the saints, here are they who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." These saints lived before the second coming of Jesus Christ which is depicted in verses 14-20. They gave the final warning about worshipping the beast. They are redeemed from the earth, they along with some who must be raised from the dead (verse 13), and taken to heaven with Jesus at His second coming, where we find them in verses 1-5. So what is the contradiction? This is my question: How can the saints of God both keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus? Does that mean that they are saved because they have corresponding good works that match their faith? And these good works are keeping the commandments of God? Are they spiritual Jews which keep the Law of God (which is spiritual) (see the reference to the 144,000 being from every tribe of Israel--Revelation 7:1-10)? i.e., the 144,000 represent the Christian church at the end of time, since they believe in Christ, which is made up of both Jews and Gentiles. It seems that faith and works must go together. Their actions testify to their faith, they keep all the commandments of God, including how to worship Him. Another verse is that found in the KJV, Revelation 22:14. "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Outside are the disobedient ones, those who break the commandments. (verse 15) Since the first four commandments of the Ten Commandments tell us how to worship God, then I would think that Christians at the end of time will keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath, while the rest of the world will be worshipping the beast on his popular day of worship, on which he deceives the whole world. What do you or others on this group think? It is interesting that the fourth commandment contains the name of God, His office, and his territory: The Lord God, who made heaven and earth and things under the earth (water)., etc. It is similar to the Presidential Seal of the USA. They belong totally to God. |
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2 | Please explain Revelation 14:12 ? | Rev 14:1 | Radioman2 | 84212 | ||
"There is no textual basis to support those who claim that the 144,000 are any entity other than physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To spiritualize the 144,000 into a Christian group violates the plain sense of the text." - - - - - - - - - - - - - Norrie: In reference to Revelation 7:4-8, you write: 'Are they spiritual Jews which keep the Law of God (which is spiritual) (see the reference to the 144,000 being from every tribe of Israel--Revelation 7:1-10)? i.e., the 144,000 represent the Christian church at the end of time, since they believe in Christ, which is made up of both Jews and Gentiles.' Consider the following. 'Revelation 7:4-8 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, (2) one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben… Gad… Asher… Naphtali… Manasseh… Simeon… Levi… Issachar… Zebulun… Joseph… Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. '2. One hundred and forty-four thousand - this number has received great consideration. Speculations abound. It is sad that commentators do not take this number literally. To denominate the number by 12,000 adds to the literal nature of this figure. We are not told why 12, 000 are chosen, but that twelve thousand are chosen is clear. 'There is no textual basis to support those who claim that the 144,000 are any entity other than physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To spiritualize the 144,000 into a Christian group violates the plain sense of the text. John gives the reader every detail necessary to correctly identify this group. The critical phrase "from every tribe of the sons of Israel" should settle any debate about their identity. This phrase always refers to physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Out of six hundred and thirty-five occurrences of this phrase throughout the Scriptures, Revelation 7:4 would be the only exception. There is no compelling reason to spiritualize away the literal sense. Every tribe of the sons of Israel has solid biblical support as a referent of Jews only.' (www.revelationcommentary.org/07_chapter.html) |
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3 | Please explain Revelation 14:12 ? | Rev 14:1 | Norrie | 84256 | ||
Her reply: I am sorry, it does seem like I did spiritualize away the 144,000 to mean all professed Christians at the end of time. I really didn't mean to do that. This is what I do mean: The 144,000 are a literal number, that I agree with totally. I know that Gideon had his 300 men whom God separated out, and then God told Elijah that He had 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal among the children of Israel. So I fully believe that God has a literal 144,000 who believe the whole truth of the Bible, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, as Revelation 14:12 points out. They will be separated out because they keep the whole Law, including keeping holy the seventh day of the week, apart from the rest of the world who keep Sunday in the final battle between God and Satan, and represent the church of God as a whole from the beginning of time, because they are the first-fruits of the earth unto God and unto the Lamb. I believe that they will be those alive at the second coming of Jesus Christ, as Paul said would be caught up together with the resurrected righteous to meet Christ in the air. They are represented as 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. That shows that they are the church, if you consider that "twelve" is representative of the church in the Bible--there were 12 sons of Israel (Jacob), and there were 12 disciples, even after Judas hung himself, Matthias was chosen to replace him. When the church was tented around the sanctuary in the wilderness for 40 years, it was separated into twelve groups, and there were leaders from every group. Each group had its own standard or flag to separate them from the others. So they formed a perfect square around the sanctuary that Moses built. This pointed forward to the church at the end of time, which "gathers" around the sanctuary truth of Jesus as our Mediator in heaven. So the 144,000 will also believe the sanctuary message of the Bible, that the Old Testament services were kindergarten illustrations to us of what work Christ has done and is doing to save us from our sins. Christ wants to put away sin totally, and the sanctuary shows what Christ is doing in heaven to put an end to all sin, that it will finally be destroyed, root and branch, so to speak. Hopefully none of us will be destroyed with it. To be part of this final last day group requires the faith of Jesus, which faith is trusting the Father even unto death. Just like Noah, these righteous ones will be ridiculed and made fun of. Just like Jesus, a death decree will be against them to destroy them (Revelation 13:15), but they will not be destroyed. They must face all kinds of abuse, and be tried to the utmost, can you imagine? but Jesus will come the second time, and then will be fulfilled Revelation 1:7, and deliver all the faithful to His Father's house that has many mansions.. The Ten Commandments was given to Christ's church from the beginning of time. It is the everlasting covenant, and Israel as a nation failed to keep that covenant, but Christ came and kept it, showing that we could keep it. It is New because we have Christ, His word, and the Holy Spirit and everything possibly given to the church to bring the church into the kingdom. But God has an adversary to keep the church from the whole light of truth, and he comes in as a roaring lion to tell us that the Ten Commandments have been nailed to the cross. God is going to prove to everyone, His law is from everlasting, just as He is from everlasting. As long as there is God, there is the Law of love written on two tables in the heavenly sanctuary. Satan knows this because he used to reside in heaven next to God's throne as the covering cherub. The angels know it and they are trying to work and minister to the saints. The Holy Spirit is God who dwells in us, the Spirit sent from Jesus who is omnipotent. That power is given to us to prepare ourselves and others for His kingdom before it is forever too late. Matthew 28:18-20. Part 1 |
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