Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | DocTrinsograce | 129266 | ||
All of these men (including the heretic Servetus) were excommunicated. Tyndale and Huss were martyred by the same authorities. Attempts were made on Luther's life and very nearly succeeded. (If you actually read the records on Servetus incident, he was sentenced to death by the city council of Geneva in spite of Calvin's pleadings to them to show mercy. Calvin wasn't even on the city council -- which was composed of men who frequently disagreed with him.) You are right about Wycliff. He had the discourtesy of dying too quickly, but the Council of Constance ordered his body disinterred, burned, and the remains thrown into a river, all done by the cover of night. Lets drop Calvin and Servetus out of the mix, I never mentioned them. (Really, Ed! Use of the ad hominem fallacy???) All of the rest of these men were excommunicated because of their connection with what was called "Wycliffism." Wycliffism was condemned by the pope in a bull issued on December 20, 1409. (This, by the way, also made "free preaching" an act of heresy against Rome.) I wish I could lay my hands on the actual text of these early bulls, but they don't seem to be extant these days. The Council of Trent, about 150 years later, put it this way "...no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures." Furthermore, "But if any one shall teach, or entertain sentiments, contrary to these decrees; let him be anathema." Okay, I'll let you improve all the numbers by three orders of magnitude. I'll even grant that I was inexact and swept too broad of a brush in ruing the death of martyred believers. Besides, as you pointed out, you wouldn't change your opinion regardless. However, you need to think about the multiple meanings of your phrase " not the rewrites done by people with an axe to grind." Meanwhile, I'm with you in at least this one point, and I paraphrase, "Lets get the facts right." Let me see if I can accommodate your sensibilities with the following politically corrected statement. Remember, I was complaining about modern evangelicalism, of which I am a part. "Ecumenism that teaches the worship of unity even at the cost of truth. That would put us under the authority of persons who will decide what we ought to believe, although they killed and tortured an unspecified number of people who taught, or felt, otherwise. (Note: Martyred figures vary depending upon source, but it is certain that these unspecified persons are repentant due to relatively recent apologies which were delivered to two other world religions.)" In future posts, I promise to take greater care with my wording. Now, shall we let God be the judge of the dead? As Emmaus put it, "On with the Bible study." |
||||||
2 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | EdB | 129290 | ||
Doc I never said these men weren't excommunicated. Nor did I say the they weren't persecuted. The point I was correcting was all these didn't happen to them because they we trying to get bible's into the hands of common man. That is the one and only point I was contesting. Incidently your right Calvin wanted a more merciful death but death none the less. Yes let us let history speak for itself! During one low point in Calvin’s influence, in 1553, the brilliant but erratic Spanish physician Michael Servetus sought refuge in Geneva. Servetus was fleeing Catholic persecution for his heresy of denying the doctrine of the Trinity. He arrived in Geneva just as Calvin’s enemies were challenging his authority. While Calvin wanted a more merciful death than burning for the heretic, he did support the silencing of the ill-balanced thinker. Servetus was burned at the stake and many in later generations remembered Calvin primarily as “the man who burned Servetus.” Two years later Calvin’s position in Geneva was secure, and until his death he had no serious opposition in the city. For Calvin, however, Geneva was never an end in itself. He considered the city a refuge for persecuted Protestants, an example of a disciplined Shelley, B. L. (1995). Church history in plain language (Updated 2nd ed.). Dallas, Tex.: Word Pub. EdB |
||||||
3 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | DocTrinsograce | 129294 | ||
Didn't those experts figure the death of Servetus was exagerated by a factor of a 1,000? That should reduce Calvin's guilt down to nothing more than spitting in his general direction. Of course, it still might be wise if the Presbyterians follow suit and apologize to the Moonies and the Mormons. | ||||||
4 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | EdB | 129295 | ||
Doc I evidently have hit a nerve and I will now back off. Have a blessed day. EdB |
||||||
5 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | DocTrinsograce | 129370 | ||
Please forgive me, Ed. Sarcasm never edifies or ministers grace to the hearer (Ephesians 4:29) no matter the provocation. What's more in this particular case it is hypocritical, since I was complaining about an ad homenism with sarcasm, which is in itself just thinly veiled ad homenistic statements! Harboring resentment regardless of the cause is a repudiation of the unity that Christ accomplished on the cross (Ephesians 2:10-22). My trespass against you, Brother Ed, was public. Therefore I acknowledge that tresspass publicly, and make my request for forgiveness publicly. |
||||||
6 | Does Islam fit here? | 2 John 1:7 | EdB | 129396 | ||
No problem my brother EdB |
||||||