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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | jlhetrick | 152699 | ||
Hi terrib, I had a rather long response to your original question but hit back button to make a change and lost it all???? Anyway, I see that Brother Doc has responded but I did want to point you to something specific. As Doc pointed out, salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ only, there is no other way to be saved. So, Refer to Gen. 6:8-9. Even before Noah believed God about the flood and was obedient in preparing the ark, he had favor with God. The bible does not tell us specifically why Noah was considered righteous and blameless "in his time" other than to say that he "walked with God". regarding the specific question in your post here, "did Noah have faith in Jesus Christ" and asking for scripture reference I offer the following: I think it is safe to assume that Noah's above mentioned righteousness and blamelessness would have been directly related to Gen. 3:14-15. I believe this to be scripture referring to the promise of the "seed" Jesus Christ through whom would come salvation from the power of satan and sin. Noah would have had this knowledge of the promise. So, where "quality" might be applied to one's faith, it would only be relevant regarding what one places his/her faith in. A faith in anything other than the promised work of Jesus Christ in old testament times (though they didn't know His name) and the finished work of Christ today, would be a faith lacking in quality (value)and insufficient for salvation. For example: Noah believing God regarding the flood was an expression of faith in that he trusted God. But this particular event of faith lacked the "qaulity" or "value" of being a saving faith in-and-of itself. So, it was not this example of Noah's expression of faith that saved his soul. I believe that this example was an example of faith that resulted in his already having a faith in the promised savior which did have the quality or value of salvation attached. One's faith need not be extraordinary, such as in the examples of Abraham, Job, and Noah, in order to be a faith with value. But rather, a simple faith in Jesus Christ who alone can redeem you. hope this helps. Jeff |
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2 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | terrib | 152706 | ||
Hi Jeff, (Hebrews 11:7 KJV) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. For he also preached for the hundred years that this flood was coming. So, it wasn't just some little thing that he did, 100 years! And by this faith (in God for the promise of the flood, not a prophecy of the seed), became "heir of the righteousness" which is by faith. I do see that they might have believed in the Messiah (seed) in prophecy and trust in Him of the prophecy that He would do what He said He would do. Therefore, I concede to your thought also. So, I guess I see it in two ways now. One: Faith in God the Father Jehovah alone and Two: faith in the promises to come through the seed, Jesus. I see this most likely with Abraham (Gal 3:16) and just slightly with Noah (1 Pet 3:19). You wrote: "A faith in anything other than the promised work of Jesus Christ in old testament times (though they didn't know His name) and the finished work of Christ today, would be a faith lacking in quality (value)and insufficient for salvation." So, if I were a Jew in the OT and believed in the saving Grace of Jesus Christ I wouldn't have to keep the Law? terrib |
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3 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | DocTrinsograce | 152710 | ||
Dear Terrib, I'll jump in here, too. Something you said triggered a thought that I should have expressed in my last post. There is a doctrine that I've been meaning to post about called "the sufficiency of Scripture." Wayne Grudem defines it very well in his Systematic Theology (page 127): "The sufficiency of Scripture means that Scripture contained all the words of God He intended His people to have at each stage of redemptive history, and that it now contains all the words of God we need for salvation, for trusting Him perfectly, and for obeying Him perfectly." Even way back in Genesis the question of believing what God has said has been at issue. God gave a command in Genesis 2:16-17 and it was questioned in Genesis 3:1. Man believed the lie rather than the Word of God -- the result was the fall. Today, we have more of the Word of God than was available to Adam and Eve. The Apostle states, "God, Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds." (Hebrews 1:1-2) Again, the very same question is before us as was before our first parents. Will we believe the Word of God? The issue has not changed. Will we be the law makers, or will we submit to the Law Maker? In Him, Doc |
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4 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | terrib | 152714 | ||
Hi Doc, Isaiah 54:13, Jeremiah 31:34, and Micah 4:2 are all forward looking prophecies, pertaining to the NT. All the other Scriptures you gave are NT proclamations. Nothing to do with OT. You wrote: "Again, the very same question is before us as was before our first parents. Will we believe the Word of God? The issue has not changed." That is unbecoming Doc! We are here to learn, not to throw innuendos. The only verses I can think of right now about OT judgment are: Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Rom 2:14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Rom 2:16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ. I do not see any Scripture that says the OT people had to receive Christ to be saved. terrib |
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5 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | DocTrinsograce | 152716 | ||
Hi, Terrib... I assume you are referencing my post 152709. Christ Himself is the object of the prophecies of saiah 54:13, Jeremiah 31:34, and Micah 4:2. We see that in John 6:45. My point was John 6:45. There are no teachings in Scripture that sharply delineate that salvation was obtained one way during one period of time and another during a different period of time. Lest you think that I am arguing from silence, note that Scripture is clear that redemption is a work of God. Romans chapter 2 is about the condemnation of the "moral Gentile," not about soteriology. Consequently, it does not address this issue at all. You would be better to look back at Romans 4, as I recommended. It addresses the question of how Abraham was saved. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (Romans 4:3-7) How were those sins covered? Where do you find Abraham making a sin offering? But without the shedding of blood, there is no covering of sin (Hebrews 9:22). If this is true of Abraham, it must necessarily be true of all of the saints before the time of Christ. God did not change how He saved men in the New Testament. It has always been by faith (Romans 5:1 and Ephesians 2:8-9). In the case of the OT people, they looked ahead in time to the Messiah. You and I look back to Him and see the cross. The cross is pivotal point in time. Again, Peter states, "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:38-43) Paul makes the very same sort of statement, "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith." (Romans 16:25-26) Jesus is in the Scripture. Even way back yonder in what God had Moses write. Many did not see it even as many do not see it now. But it was there -- and God directs those He chooses to His Word. In Him, Doc |
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6 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | terrib | 152721 | ||
Hi Doc, "Where do you find Abraham making a sin offering?". I believe that Law came after Abraham. But he did make burnt offerings, that were usually ment for the priests. "Jesus is in the Scripture. Even way back yonder in what God had Moses write. Many did not see it even as many do not see it now. But it was there -- and God directs those He chooses to His Word." Agreed, I see Jesus from Gen 1:1 and before and beyond. And you are right, it is not about soteriology. That also is NT. "God did not change how He saved men in the New Testament. It has always been by faith" Agree.!! Thanks Doc for your sharing. terrib |
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7 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | DocTrinsograce | 152722 | ||
Dear Terrib, You wrote, "And you are right, it is not about soteriology. That also is NT." I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. (Genesis 49:18) The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. (Exodus 15:2) The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. (2 Samuel 22:3) Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation. (1 Chronicles 16:23) Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him. (Job 13:15-16) But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation. (Psalms 13:5) Now know I that the LORD saveth his anointed; he will hear him from his holy heaven with the saving strength of his right hand. (Psalms 20:6) My salvation from generation to generation. (Isaiah 51:8b) It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. (Lamentations 3:26) Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9 I will joy in the God of my salvation. (Habakkuk 3:18b) Which part of the Old Testament is not about soteriology? In Him, Doc |
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8 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | terrib | 152724 | ||
Hi Doc, Question: "What is Soteriology?" A: Soteriology discusses how Christ's death secures the salvation of those who believe. Titus 3:5-8 is a tremendous summary of Soteriology, "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." (http://www.gotquestions.org/Soteriology.html) The term “soteriology” comes from two Greek terms, namely, so_ter meaning “savior” or “deliverer” and logos meaning “word,” “matter,” or “thing.” In Christian systematic theology it is used to refer to the study of the biblical doctrine of salvation. It often includes such topics as the nature and extent of the atonement as well as the entire process of salvation, conceived as an eternal, divine plan designed to rescue lost and erring sinners and bring them back into eternal fellowship with God. Many regard it as the primary theme in Scripture with the glory of God as its goal. (http://www.bible.org) This is where I got my answer, terrib |
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9 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | DocTrinsograce | 152725 | ||
Dear Terrib, I'd tend to agree more with the definition of www.bible.org. (I've actually never really been too impressed with the scholarship of the gotquestions.org bunch.) Soteriology is, simply, the study of the doctrine (or means) of salvation. The doctrine of salvation is not an exclusively NT theme. Note that even www.bible.org is states that "Many regard it as the primary theme in Scripture with the glory of God as its goal." That'd be me. :-) In Him, Doc Soteriology: The study of the doctrine of salvation. It is derived from the Greek word soterious which means salvation. Some of the subjects of soteriology are the atonement, imputation, and regeneration. www.carm.org |
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10 | Quality of faith | Heb 11:7 | terrib | 152736 | ||
Hi Doc, I have always seen Christ in the OT and do not want you to think that I don’t. My main thought, at the time, was if the OT people knew Him or were they worshipping the Father directly. After reading some of your posts and some articles on this subject and searching my beliefs, I can see where they were looking forward to the Messiah. I don’t know why, at this moment, I let that one brain cell go off on such a tangent, for I actually, after some reflection, have always known the answers. So, whether it was a trial or an assault I will be informed in due season. So, I feel I need to apologize to the forum for the time I took. It is easy to see how some factions get started. A second thought has come to me while writing this, maybe it wasn’t a test pointed toward me; possibly for some other reader. God bless you for your steadfastness and all the others that participated. As you wrote to someone, it’s good to have a shoulder once in awhile. Your brother, terrib |
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