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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | RU saying some sanctified aren't saved? | Heb 10:26 | BadDog | 63506 | ||
Joe, Thanks for your comments - good stuff to ruminate over. I'll address the last one 1st. If you look back at my previous response, I did respond to vs. 39 - destruction does NOT always refer to E. life destruction, and is often used in the NT to refer to temporal destruction, waste, etc. Before I answer your other comments, I have a question - I am aware of the theological concept of progressive sanctification (and agree that there isa distinction between sanctification that occurs to all believers at the new birth and prog. sanct.) But my question is whether or not you are saying that this passage here does say that these people were sanctified, yet that does NOT mean that they were regenerate!? Are you saying that one can be sanctified but not a Christian? Thanks, BadDog |
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2 | RU saying some sanctified aren't saved? | Heb 10:26 | Reformer Joe | 63511 | ||
You wrote: "If you look back at my previous response, I did respond to vs. 39 - destruction does NOT always refer to E. life destruction, and is often used in the NT to refer to temporal destruction, waste, etc." I read that, but I was talking about the juxtaposition between "shrinking back" and "having faith". Those seem to be presented as opposites (i.e. one that falls into one of those categories does not fall into the other), as do "being destroyed" and having one's SOUL preserved. Why would the writer emphasize preservation of the soul if physical destruction is what the Holy Spirit had in view here? "But my question is whether or not you are saying that this passage here does say that these people were sanctified, yet that does NOT mean that they were regenerate!? Are you saying that one can be sanctified but not a Christian?" What I am saying is that one can be OUTWARDLY sanctified (e.g. set apart by baptism, or circumcision in the case of the OT Israelite) and not truly be a Christian. I just wanted to point out that the sanctification referred to in Hebrews 10:29 does not necessarily refer to an inward, spiritual transformation. In fact, I think to give it that meaning would lend credence to an Arminian understanding of the passage. We see outward sanctification throughout the Bible, from the consecration of the tabernacle and its contents, to the Nazirite vow (a special "setting apart"). One could even say that while the Protestant view of baptism and the Lord's Supper do not lend themselves to any kind of supernatural transformation of the the water, the bread, and the cup, that they are sanctified for a holy use. The word "sanctuary" itself comes from the same word, to connote a space set apart for the worship of God. With regard to people, we also see this in the New Testament: "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy." --1 Corinthians 7:14 Here we have unbelievers referred to as "sanctified." Obviously their unbelief means that they are not Christians, but they do have a special status (NOT salvation) as being set apart for the sake of the children of the believer. This is a challenging verse, but one thing is certain: there are unbelievers in the Bible who are referred to as "sanctified," and to me it makes the most sense to consider this outward "sanctification" as the one the writer of Hebrews mentions as well. --Joe! |
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3 | RU saying some sanctified aren't saved? | Heb 10:26 | BadDog | 63546 | ||
Joe, Thanks much - this was a very good response to my question. The 1 Corin. 7 passage is a good example of the general use of "sanctified" for unbelievers as meaning "set apart for a purpose," and you are right. However, FWIW, this idea of being set apart for a purpose really has to do w/ its use re. things according to the lexicons. When referring to people, it, in general, has the idea of "making holy." However, the context of Heb. 10:29 makes it clear that inward sanctification is in view, IMO: 10:19 "Therefore BRETHREN, since WE have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus... and since..." 10:22 - 25 several "let us" - The author is including the readers w/ himself as believers in this exhortation. 10:26 "For if we sin willfully (The NASB "go-on sinning willfully" is really stretching a simple present tense in Gk.) after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. (capitalized by NASB as an OT quote). 10:30 - "... And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." (They are HIS PEOPLE, not unbelievers) 10:32ff "But remember the former days, when, *after being enlightened* (these are believers who are enlightened), you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations (They suffered as believers for Christ), and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. (They suffered all those things before because, like Abraham, they were looking to a better possession - *a lasting one.* How can these not be believers?!) 10:35, 36 "Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great *reward*. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. (Believers are rewarded for faithful service - "Well done thou good and faithful servant" Unbelievers are not offered the possibility of rewards.) Now we come to 10:39 - 38, 39 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. (This is again cap. by NASB as OT quote) 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul (SUXH - is often best translated LIFE, as in 1 Peter 3:20 - "8 persons/lives were brought safely...). Preserving of the soul here just means saving the life. It can and often does mean the physical life in the NT - actually more often than anything else. So, if the Jewish believers Barnabas (or whoever the author was) was writing to were to endure, they would preserve a life lived for Him. A life that meant something, as of value to God. Anyway, that's how I see this passage and the context, Joe - FWIW. Thanks for this insightful and energetic interaction, Joe. The above ideas are just how I see it. Thanks for giving me something to consider, and I hope you, and others on this list who may not have considered Hebrews in this light before, will consider my ideas also. BadDog |
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