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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | New Creature | 181000 | ||
Hi Cuddle I read the post you directed me to which was composed by Pastor John Moran. I agree with that post from him. here is something he stated in his post which I believe is important: 1) "The nature of the restraint must be supernatural." and"Both of these facts indicate that the restrainer could not be a human being." Like me, John Moran believes in the supernatural, non-human nature of the "restrainer" The only force I believe is powerful enough to restrain such lawlessness is the Holy Spirit. By the way, I don't believe John 14:6 relates to 2 Thess. 2:7 in any way. Blessings NC |
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2 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | cuddle | 181006 | ||
John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; Jesus said forever, not until taken away; and another interesting thing that I just noticed is the NASB capitalizes pronouns when they reference the Godhead, the translator of the NASB must not hold that 2 Thes. refers to Him either,if you notice their use of the pronouns. I am with you, I too belived it was the Holy Spirit, but Scripture must harmonize and I do not see the harmony in the thought applied when Jesus said the Helper, (Holy Spirit) would remain with you forever. Unless we take it to mean the Holy Spirit in us and not in the world, but that would be an assumption that I cannot support with Scripture. In His Service, Cuddle PS I am enjoying this debate, I truly enjoy this exchange of understanding. I pray the Holy Spirit will teach us the truth of this passage. |
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3 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | New Creature | 181024 | ||
Cuddle What if the rapture were to come today, and all those believers in whom the Holy Spirit currently indwells were taken out of this world? Would not the restraint of evil be removed from this world at the same time. In that sense the Holy Spirit truly is with us forever. He is with us, but not with the world in such a instance. 2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. Blessings NC |
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4 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | cuddle | 181049 | ||
NC, I do not believe you have addressed my question about John 14:16...could you please support your theory of the restrainer with the word of Christ stated at John 14:16? And explain HOW you can still support that theory without contradicting Scripture. I do not mean to be difficult, but the issue of 2 Thess. has been laid to rest as far I am concerned by the post/reply of CDBJ a few days ago in his references to Dan. and the archangel, Michael. Have you considered his theory at all? I think it should be considered because it does not seem to me that it comprimises the Holy Scriptures and it makes sense! Again, I could be wrong, I obviously do not know for certain or I would not have posted this question to begin with. lol Anyway, this is a fun debate! In His Service, Cuddle |
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5 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | jlhetrick | 181072 | ||
Hello Cuddle, I too appreciated CDBJ's post and believe that he might even be right regarding the identity of the "restrainer". But let us not forget that there are many bible scholars out there that do disagree with this. I believe that New Creature's comment regarding the Rapture should not be tossed aside. I had anxiously followed with the intention of bringing attention to the rapture if New Creature did not do it soon. The reason this is an important consideration is that it may actually be that you are reading into the verse somewhat. It is perfectly logical and theologically sound to consider that the "retainer" may in fact be the Holy Spirit. Arguing His omnipresence only makes sense if we are interpreting that the "taken away" to mean He, the retainer, will no longer be present. This would not hold to scrutinity of Scripture however, consider John 15:26. Jesus said "when the Helper comes..."whom I will send..." There has never been any debate (that I am aware of) that this passage is referring to the Holy Spirit (and Jesus refers to Him as "the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father). So was the Holy Spirit omnipresent at that time? The Scriptures teach that He is the third person in the godhead. He is God, without beginning and without end and His nature has not developed over time. What then are we to make of it? I suggest that just as Jesus has always existed, there was a time in time where he manifested in a new role when He was "sent" to be born of Mary's womb. There was also a time when He was "taken away" and there will be a time when He "returns". The same can be agrued regarding the Holy Spirit if He in fact is the restrainer. It may be that He was "sent" in the sense of fulfilling the restraining role and at a time in the future will be "taken away" (at the rapture) or removed from the task of that role. I hope this is helpful, Jeff |
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6 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | cuddle | 181082 | ||
Jeff I am not sure I fully understand everything you said, but I am going to give it a try… Correct me if I am wrong or misunderstanding your post. The phrasing of John 15:16, I find very clear, that the spirit of truth is indeed the Holy Spirit To question the ‘life-span’ of the Holy Spirit can be answered with Genesis 1:2, 26. To support (as I agree) Jesus has always existed, I would direct one to the same verse of Genesis 1:26, as well as Proverbs 8, John 3:13; 8:23; 17:22-26 and several more, but I think you get the picture. I think it is also important we look at what Scripture teaches us is the job or function of this third member of the Godhead we call, the Holy Spirit Teacher Helper Comforter Advocate These are all repeated in various places, yet none, to me, imply a physical restrainer. As I get the mental picture of one who is physically (yet in the spiritual) as if in battle, which is why I believe I am leaning towards the support of Michael the Archangel (2 Thes 2:7) In conclusion: I do believe you make a valid claim, if I understand correctly what you mean as far as the rapture theory. My thought here however would be that it would make more sense for the church to be the ‘restrainer’ because from what I understand of the rapture theory, it is the church that will be ‘caught up’ or ‘taken away’, thus removed. I know by making that last statement I am opening up a new can of worms, but this FUN!! In His Service, Cuddle |
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7 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | jlhetrick | 181086 | ||
Hello again Cuddle, As I stated in my earlier post, I too lean toward the angel Michael being the restrainer after having read CDBJ's post. My post was in response to your focusing on John 14:16 and believing that New Creature's believing the Holy Spirit to be the restrainer was in conflict with that verse. My intent was to point out that NC's argument does not conflict with the verse based on the argument that I presented. As for the church being the restrainer, that is a long-standing position taken by some as well. I guess the best reply to that is, Christ is the head of the church, and the Holy Spirit is the person who empowers the church. We, the church, do nothing on our own. Following logically, I believe that saying the church is the restrainer would be equal to saying the Holy Spirit is the restrainer. Your thoughts, :) Jeff |
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8 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | cuddle | 181090 | ||
I disagree because that is dangerously close to saying the church is GOD The church is the Body of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in the believer, but the believer is not the Holy Spirit, nor is the church the Holy Spirit. In His Service, Cuddle |
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9 | 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 WHO? | 2 Thess 2:7 | jlhetrick | 181094 | ||
Hello Cuddle, Please don't take my words out of context. If my post was confusing to you, thank you for stating the obvious. but we must be careful not to make it a play on words. To clarify my point in the previous post. If the churuch is the restrainer (which neither of us are teaching and/or appear to believe) it would only be possible in that the Holy Spirit is at work in the church. We the people, the body of believers, would have no power what ever to restrain anything, including our own nature, much less the antichrist. Hope this clears up my position. God bless, Jeff |
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