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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Will there be a partial rapture? | 1 Thess 4:17 | MJH | 153873 | ||
Paul the Torah observant Jew. It’s hard to post on this subject in such a short space, but I shall try. The primary place in scripture to find proof that Paul always saw himself as obedient to the Law of Moses is by reading Acts 21 – 22. (Acts 21:24,26) Here we find Paul just arriving in Jerusalem and James says there are thousands of Jewish believers in Jesus as Messiah who are all zealous for the law [of Moses] and they think Paul is not zealous for the Law and is teaching “JEWS” to ignore the Law [of Moses]. Paul sets out to PROVE to them that he is Torah observant by participating in the Nazarite Vows that some poor members of the community had taken. Paul could have “said” he was observant, but much better he can “show” it by his actions. (see post 152288 and replies for more on this) Paul always held the Torah up in high regard. The argument among the first century Jewish Christians was concerning what the Gentiles had to do. Paul again and again says the Gentiles do not need to convert to Judaism to be saved. There were two types of Gentile believers BEFORE Jesus came. 1) A “God fearer” who believed in the One true God and His word revealed in the Old Testament but who did NOT get circumcised nor follow all of the Mosaic Law. They were expected to follow the Noah Covenant (see post 150100) (which is what Acts 15 mentions as well). 2) A proselytite was a Gentile who became circumcised and became Jewish, following the whole Mosaic Law. The first group came to the temple and had to stay in the “court of the Gentiles” (which was filled with Jews trading and selling so the “God fearers” did not have anyplace to go, thus Jesus and his whip and his “house of prayer for ALL nations” quote.) The second group, the converts, could go into the Jewish sections, they were ritually clean. All this is important to understanding Paul’s view of Gentile Christians. He said they could basically be “God Fearers” who accept Jesus as the Messiah to be saved and be a complete member of the community (not divided by the dividing wall). To Paul there was no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile in the eyes of God in relation to salvation. The book of Ezekiel also predicts the wall of separation would be taken away in the days of the Messiah. Paul did not tell Jews to stop following the Law of Moses (he circumcised Timothy after all). He DID preach against legalism among Jews as did Jesus. Legalism is the idea that salvation is by following commandments (so a person following commandments is not a legalist unless he believes that his ability to do so earns him salvation.) The Old Testament NEVER teaches this idea (even if many 1st century Jewish Rabbis did.) The Old Testament is a grace based religion. God did not change. The Passover is a celebration of this grace based salvation which came before the commandments. So Paul did not require Gentiles to follow the “Law of Moses” to be saved, but he did not tell Jews to stop following the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20-21). Paul followed all of the Law according to both his and Jesus interpretation. He did not follow the law according to the interpretation of some rabbis of his time which was a legalistic or works based faith that was contrary to the Law itself. I really had to cut this short….I had an outline that was simply too long for a forum. I assume that this simple post will not be enough to make my point, but I’ll see what you think of this first. It’s a real joy to discuss…. MJH |
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2 | Will there be a partial rapture? | 1 Thess 4:17 | srbaegon | 154002 | ||
Hello MJH, As a Bible professor once told the class, "Paul did some un-Pauline things on his last trip to Jerusalem." By this he meant that Acts 21:24,26 is NOT characteristic of Paul's teaching and work. What you have suggested is contrary to Paul's teaching: 1 Cor 9:19-23 (ESV) For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. Timothy's circumcision was not done because Paul followed the Torah. Rather it removed a potential stumbling block in reaching out to Jews (Acts 16:3). Steve |
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3 | Will there be a partial rapture? | 1 Thess 4:17 | MJH | 154013 | ||
Are you saying then, that Paul intentionally misleads the Jerusalem believers in Acts 21-22 to save his own skin? Did James know this? It was he who came up with the idea. It is obvious that their plan was to show that Paul was following the Law and not teaching Jews to stop following it. If Paul's actions in Acts 21-22 are contrary to what he taught, then how could he speak boldly against Peter when Peter did the same thing? (Gal 2:11) I personally can not come to the conclusion of your Bible professor in this regard. Being all things to all people does not mean lying to them or deceiving them. In Acts 15, Paul did not shrink back in the face of controversy in Jerusalem. Even James was a part of the Acts 15 statement about what the Gentiles were to do, so why would he participate in trying to convince Jewish Believers in Jerusalem that Paul was following the Law? I do appreciate your reply, however, and hope to continue the conversation. MJH |
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4 | Will there be a partial rapture? | 1 Thess 4:17 | srbaegon | 154022 | ||
Hello MJH, Misleading? Certainly not. Acts 21 records how the elders asked him to do a favor in order to bring some measure of peace with Jewish authorities, no more. Acts 22 says nothing either way of his personal life whether according to Torah or not. The point of the request was to demonstrate that Paul was not preaching abandonment of the Mosaic Law. He was rather preaching its fulfillment. And if it was fulfilled, it is no longer a determinant for Christian conduct. Peter didn't do the same thing. He was causing Gentiles to live like Jews which they never were to do. Paul neither lied nor deceived. He was living what he had taught--to the Jews I became a Jew. Steve |
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