Results 1 - 14 of 14
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | BradK | 146399 | ||
Hi Merv, I admire your diligence to study- sincerely. However, is it at all possible that your conclusions- though well intentioned- are wrong? I don't see the overwhelming scriptural evidence obligating us to keep the Law. Is not that counter to an understanding of both Romans and Galatians. Particularly, Romans 8:3, 10:4, and Gal. 3:25. Was not the purpose of the Law, "to lead us to Christ" Gal. 3:24? Law keeping seems to me an excercise in both futility and self-righteousness. If I can keep the Law, than I have something about which to boast. The Law still stands in its' majesty and holiness. However the believers' relationship to it has changed. We're no longer under its' condemnation. I'm not expecting agreement on this point, but in keeping with your desire to "discuss the Bible with fellow believers." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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2 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | swerv | 146402 | ||
Brad: Yes, we can respectfully disagree. And we still do. You will have to explain to me Math. 15:3. 1 John 2:4 Is so clear I do not see how anyone can state we are not obligated to keep the law. Jesus is to me our example and to live within us right ??? Then according to your understanding of law -- how do you explain John 15:10 and 1 John 2:6. Galations: Yes law lead us to Christ !! It pointed out our sin. But the only law that we are not to follow now is the law of sacrifices and offerings which was a shaddow of things to come (Jesus) Only Jesus can atone for our sins. The blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. But sin still exists in this world. We as Christians will keep the law through the help of Jesus but many many people still need the law to lead them to Christ - to point out they are guilty before God. Once they confess they are no longer "under the law" or guilty of it because Jesus has paid the penalty for it but we still need to live the life of Christ which is our love for Him - reflected in our keeping His will or commandments. Noah found grace in the eyes of God but he still had to be obedient to God and build an ark to survive !!! Merv |
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3 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | BradK | 146408 | ||
Hi Merv, I think we both know the meaning of the verses you referred to:-) From my perpective, a dispensational approach helps to clarify and properly understand these types of interpretational issues. If you don't agree with or hold to that system, it would explain our difference. The best scriptural evidence I can (and will) offer are from Romans: 8:1 "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." 6:14 "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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4 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | swerv | 149407 | ||
Brad: Exactly !!! Sin shall no longer be master over us !! Why -- because we will keep the law !!! That is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" Being "under the law" does not mean - we are obliged to keep it. No no !!! It means to be guilty of it !! Being no longer under the law (Rom. 3:19) means we are no longer guilty before God because we have accepted the perfect sacrifice for our "past" sins. Now that we are free from being guilty before God or "under the law" we can now go forth with the power of the Holy Spirit to live in love and obedience to God. We will no longer willfully sin if our heart is changed by what Jesus did for us !! In love, Merv |
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5 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | Morant61 | 149423 | ||
Greetings Merv! Where do you find in Scripture that 'under the Law' means 'not guilty of it'? I looked up the phrase 'under the Law', which is the Greek 'hupo nomon'. It is used 11 times in 8 verses. The meaning 'not guilty of it' does not fit. Gal. 4:4 says that Christ was 'born under Law'. Does that mean that He was guilty of violating the Law? Gal. 4 also speaks of Christians who wanted to go back and be enslaved again to the observance of special days and circumcision. Paul describes them as people who 'want to be under the Law'. Gal. 3:23-25 gives a detailed explanation of what being 'under the Law' means. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | swerv | 150345 | ||
Hi Tim: "under the law" means to be guilty of the law Romans 3:19-20 says "by the law is the knowledge of sin" Right - it doen not mean "not guilty it" No being "born under the law" as Jesus was means He was accountable to the law but He never sinned so was never guilty of it as Man was. He came to free people from being under the law because His death replaced the sacrificail system and now through the Holy Spirit we have power to "not sin" and therefore "not be guilty of the law" or "under the law". Jesus cannot be a liar - He told the adulterous woman to "go and sin no more". 1 John 2:4 speaks of God's requirement of our obedience out of love !!! TRUTH Yes Gal.4 does speak of people wanting to return to laws that Jesus replaced at the cross. The sacrificial Mosaic laws were abolished at the cross. DO WE STILL SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS - NO !!! But these laws also included ceremonial days !!! Gal. 3:23 -- Yes only faith can justify not law. After the law lead us to faith in Christ we now understand that we need to be obedient to Christ. But while we were disobedient the law worked on our conscience to lead us to faith in Christ. Look forward to your response, In Love Thomas |
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7 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | Morant61 | 150388 | ||
Greetings Merv! You lost me my friend! You said in your previous post, "Being "under the law" does not mean - we are obliged to keep it. No no !!! It means to be guilty of it !! Being no longer under the law (Rom. 3:19) means we are no longer guilty before God because we have accepted the perfect sacrifice for our "past" sins. Now that we are free from being guilty before God or "under the law" we can now go forth with the power of the Holy Spirit to live in love and obedience to God." So, you claimed that to be 'under the Law' means to be guilty of it. Yet, I showed you in Scripture that Jesus was born 'under the Law', and He was not 'guilty of it'. Therefore, your definition of 'under the Law' as 'guilty of it', and 'no longer under the Law' as 'not guilty of it' do not work Scripturally. So, these two phrase must mean something else other than what you have been saying. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | swerv | 150398 | ||
Tim: Ok - We agree that "under the law" - means that we are guilty of it and must keep it. According to how "I believe" you interpret the NT that "we are no longer under the law" - it means we no longer have to keep the law - RIGHT ?? The reference to Jesus being born during the time of "under the law" meant Jesus musty keep the law but only refers to be guilty in relation to man because man has sin but Jesus does not !!! Man has always been "required" by God to keep law. From the time of Adam - God had a law to not eat from tree of life. This law existed prior to even sin. The Bible says without law their cannot be sin. But even though there was that law - Adam was not guilty before God until he broke it !! So to be "under the law" can have different meaning depending on the time and who is "under the law". But clearly the phrase in the NT that "we are no longer under the law but under grace" can ABSOLUTELY NOT mean that we do not have to keep God's laws. It just makes no sense in the light of all the scripture that requires us to keep His commandments and be obedient to show our love. It would be like saying that although God gave Adam a command to not eat from the tree - Adam didn't really have to keep it. God judges us according to His law because His laws are perfect and holy and just ! Now does this make us or God a legalist - NO !! If we love Him we will obey. It is all about understanding He is our creator and does all things for our good. In love, Merv |
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9 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | DocTrinsograce | 150423 | ||
Dear Thomas, Your posit is something called antinomianism. It is not a position of orthodoxy. I wish I had more time to discuss it, but I've got a paper due tomorrow. I'll simply give you some quotes. "If the 'grace' you have received does not help you to keep the law, you have not received grace." --Dr. M. Lloyd-Jones "It is particularly noteworthy that sins which contravene the law (as breaches of the Ten Commandments) are also contrary to the sound doctrine of the gospel. So the moral standards of the gospel do not differ from the moral standards of the law. We must not therefore imagine that, because we have embraced the gospel, we may now repudiate the law! To be sure, the law is impotent to save us, and we have been released from the law's condemnation, so that we are no longer 'under' it in that sense. But God has sent His Son to die for us, and now puts His Spirit within us, in order that the righteous requirements of the law may be fulfilled in us. There is no antithesis between law and gospel in the moral standards which they teach; the antithesis is in the way of salvation, since the law condemns, while the gospel justifies." --John R.W. Stott "The Gospel of Christ is the only hope of fulfilling the law. In honoring the Son of God by acknowledging Him as Lord, we are in effect brought into a standing of having 'fulfilled' the law. No man can honor God without honoring the Son of God (John 5:23); He is the fulfillment of the law for the transgressor of the law, and there is no other fulfillment available or possible." --Bob L. Ross "What is the relation of the Law to the saint? Three answers have been given. First, that sinners become saints by obeying the Law. Second, that the Law is a rule of life for believers. Third, that the Law has nothing whatever to do with believers today. Those who give the first answer teach that the Law defines what God requires from man, and therefore man must keep it in order to be accepted by God. Those who give the second answer teach that the Law exhibits a standard of conduct, and that while this Old Testament standard receives amplification in the New, yet the latter does not set aside the former. Those who give the third answer teach that the Law was a yoke of bondage, grievous to be borne, and that it has been made an end of so far as Christians are concerned. The first answer is Legalism pure and simple: salvation by works; the second, relates to true Christian liberty; the third, is Antinomianism - lawlessness, a repudiation of God's governmental authority. The first view prevailed generally through the Medieval Ages, when Popery reigned almost supreme. The second view prevailed generally during the time of the Reformers and Puritans. The third view has come into prominence during the last century, and now is the popular belief of our day." --A. W. Pink Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:17) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4) In Him, Doc |
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10 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | candy lee | 150432 | ||
The law that was contrary to us was the law which was kept in a pocket on the side of the Ark which was the law that goverened the sacrifices and the way that they were to be peformed. This law was not written by God's finger, but by a man's hand under the guidence of God. The tables of stone written by the finger of God were kept inside the Ark under the Mercy Seat with the two angels looking downward to the law of God which is a reflection of His character. We are to keep this law as a sign that we love Him and belong to Him so that His character is replecated in us.Eccl 12:13 Keeping the law does not earn you a place in the Kingdom, but keeping the law out of love to God being obedient to His commands shows that you are His and not of this world. It is also written, 1 Jn 2:3-6 Look at verse 4 He that saith, I know him,and keepht not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Jn 14:15 also. For this very reason is how we get to be the church of Laodiceia, because we have fallen away from the pure doctrine and keep traditions and make void the law of God. 2 Thes 2:3-12, Mt15:9 Mk 7:7. Eze 20:20 Isa 66:22,23 God is love and there is no greater love we can show to God and to others than the keeping of the law, for the law shows us our sin,like a mirror.Paul said he would not have known what sin was except for the law showed him. Rom 7:7, Rom 3:20,6:15-18. This is the love of God 1Jn 5:1-3. Only those who keep His commandments will avoid the mark of the beast Rev 14:12 Eze 20:12 Dan 7:25 Identify the one who thinks to change time and law. Who has tampered with God's Royal Law? | ||||||
11 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | DocTrinsograce | 150434 | ||
Dear Candy Lee, That was very well balanced and well said. I would add that outside of the effectual grace and redeeming work of God, no man is able to keep the law. "Not the labor of my hands Can fulfill Thy law’s demands; Could my zeal no respite know, Could my tears forever flow, All for sin could not atone; Thou must save, and Thou alone." --Augustus M. Toplady In Him, Doc |
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12 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | candy lee | 150437 | ||
The wages of sin is death. We can receive the free gift of salvation throught Jesus Christ our Lord who gave Himself for us that we maybe made the rightousness of God in Him. You are corret. For we are bought with a price and we are not our own.For He was made to be sin for us.He paid the price for sin which is death forfilling the requirements of the law. We accept this gift, putting away our sins and live as He lived. He is our example. | ||||||
13 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | swerv | 150502 | ||
Yes - Amen !! The death penalty was fulfilled in Christ. God wants our love through obedience to our creator. Merv |
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14 | Partly under the Law? | Col 2:14 | candy lee | 150527 | ||
Rom 5:8-21 says it all. remember that sin entered in by disobedience. Through love we obey. | ||||||