Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Reformer Joe | 49486 | ||
While some Reformed individuals hold to "double predestination" (often referred to as supralapsariansism), many hold that God's foreordaining to everlasting death is a passing over of the non-elect. In other words, since the "default position" from birth is being a child of God's wrath, He simply in His divine counsel chooses save some who are already under His righteous judgment and not others. Those in the latter group will continue to reject Christ, following their own natural inclinations until their last breath. And the message of Christ is good news for all who believe. The bad news preceded the Good News, that all are already under the judgment of God the Father. Simply put from the Calvinist viewpoint, the "bad news" of Romans 1-3 applies to all men, and the "good news" of Jesus Christ is a rescue from the bad news for the elect. It is different from the pagan idea of fate. Fatalism says that no matter what one does, his/her outcome is certain. In stories regarding fate we have people trying to escape from their predicament, to no avail. In Reformed theology, those who will be in hell have no desire to embrace Christ. It is not a situation of people running to Jesus Christ and being turned away. It is a case of everyone running from Christ unless God changes the heart and will. All who put their trust in Christ will be saved. However, only those whom the Father gives the Son will do so (John 6:37-44). --Joe! |
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2 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49488 | ||
Joe, "It is different from the pagan idea of fate. Fatalism says that no matter what one does, his/her outcome is certain" Joe From the WCF "III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7] IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]" I still don't see the difference, even when it is dressed up in Christian terminology. But I have followed your discussions with Tim and see no point in covering the same ground. Emmaus |
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3 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Reformer Joe | 49491 | ||
Let me try one more time, just for fun. Fate is something that cannot be avoided, no matter how much one tries to avoid it. In other words, human beings are free to try, but outside forces will always prevent them from succeeding. Predestination is something that is also fixed, but no one will ultimately try to avoid one's destiny. Human beings who are not predestinated unto eternal life will by their very nature NOT try to avoid it. Constrained by their natures, their will is conformed to the lifelong rejection of the true gospel of Christ. They will not fight their destiny. Every action they do will be in rejection of salvation through faith alone in Christ alone. The destiny of all men is determined by God, but there is no thwarting of free rebellion on the part of a human being against one's predestination (since such free rebellion will not occur). So while there is some similarity between fate and biblical predestination in that our destinies are determined in eternity without our consent (which Augustine rightly pointed out would be in favor of rejection of Christ), in biblical terms we will all willingly embrace the path that leads to our destiny. --Joe! |
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4 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Mandy33319 | 49501 | ||
"Fate and Predestination": so, it is possible that a person could be fated (doomed) to be predestined for hell, and not be able to do a thing about it? If God has a person predestined for hell, then he's going to hell, no matter what? | ||||||
5 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Reformer Joe | 49504 | ||
Welcome to the Forum! This is one topic that you will find no lack of posts on. I recommend that you go up to the quick search box at the right and type in words such as "elect," "election," and "predestination" to get an eyeful of both sides of this debate. Simply put, however, those not predestined for salvation will never want what it takes to be justified before a holy and just God. It is not just a question of inability; the non-elect DESIRES to refrain from true repentance of sin and faith in Jesus Christ's accomplished work on the Cross alone for salvation. --Joe! |
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6 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Mandy33319 | 49512 | ||
"...those not predestined for salvation will never want what it takes to be justified before a holy and just God..." (What someone on the forum said) Is there something directly in the Bible that states or agrees with this? Is this saying that God has made a list of those who will not/cannot come to him? Pardon the naivety but unless this is supported clearly somewhere in the Bible, then it is clearly just one of those utterances that seem to abound, concerning the plans and thinking of God. I'd certainly like to read this IN the Bible. |
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7 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Reformer Joe | 49553 | ||
You wrote: "Is this saying that God has made a list of those who will not/cannot come to him? Pardon the naivety but unless this is supported clearly somewhere in the Bible, then it is clearly just one of those utterances that seem to abound, concerning the plans and thinking of God. I'd certainly like to read this IN the Bible." For the concept of human nature being disinclined toward God, Romans 3:10-18. For passages which say where Jesus addresses who will/can come to Him or believe Him: John 6:37-40,44,65 John 10:25-30 Matthew 11:27 Luke 10:22 God's sovereign choice (without our consultation): Ephesians 1:4,11 Romans 8:28-30 Romans 9:18-24 Mathhew 13:10-16 There are many,many more, but that is a start. --Joe! |
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