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NASB | Ephesians 4:3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the bond of peace [each individual working together to make the whole successful]. |
Subject: catholic and protestant salvation view |
Bible Note: Classical, evangelical Protestants are united on several things. Gee, you make it seem like we are just one big "anti-Catholic club" or something! The Protestants of the Reformation were united in saying that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. They were also united in saying that while the church are God's people and have been given authority in interpreting Scripture, only Scripture is a binding authority on matters of faith and life. In all Protestant churches that believe the Bible is the word of God, all of these things are held in common. Likewise, while Catholic orders do agree on the key dogmas of Catholicism, the rules established by different orders do emphasize different things. Many of the orders, such as the Society of Jesus, were started as reforming orders within the church. The Franciscans faced a great deal of grief from other Catholics over their insistence upon "apostolic poverty." Many in the Order of St. Francis went to far as to accuse the rest of the orders to be lapsed Catholics who did not understand the Christian life at all. The fact is that, while all who take holy orders are part of Catholicism, there are substantial differences between different orders which, while not being central to Roman Catholicism, are important to them and often the cause of internal disagreements. You wrote: "And the argument about the ancient heretics using scripture to support their positions is valid." I never argued that cults and heretics do not use Scripture to support their claims. My point was that it is not a simple stalemate between opposing parties, simply because the early church used the WHOLE of Scripture to point out where their interpretations were false. For example, the Arians can point out passages where Jesus claims that the Father is "greater than" He is. But once we look at the whole of apostolic revelation in Scripture, it becomes quite clear that Jesus is not talking about His essence or stating that He is a created being. That is the path the Council of Nicea took in condemning him, rather than putting their heads together in a huddle and coming out to say, "This is true because the Church says so." You wrote: "The difference is that in the forum and in the Protestant world there is no other really binding authority if one Church, say Lutheran or Reformed, has no more authority than another in resolving these scriptural disputes as the Church Councils do." I accept many of the Church councils as binding. My church stands with you in believing the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, and the Definition of Chalcedon. We look at Augustine and Aquinas and Anselm and read them as well, even though we do not view their teachings as binding, we recognize that they were used of God to properly interpret Scripture in a great number of instances. My denomination, like most rooted in the Reformation, recognizes RCC baptism as valid as well, even if it disagrees with Rome on what the sacrament "does." I have a very high view of the church. The confession to which I subscribe agrees with the historical position of Rome in stating that "out of which [the church] there is no ordinary possibility of salvation." We just differ on what our definition of the "church" is. Have you ever taken the opportunity to read what the Westminster Confession of Faith says about the Church? If you haven't, I think that taking a look at it might clear up some misconceptions of theauthority I do acknowledge the church in having. Chapter 25 of the WCF is a very short one, and I encourage you to look at it, if only for clarification of my position: http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ And I know that if in almost half a milennium that we have not resolved the differences, that a meager series of posts is not going to accomplish much. But I do enjoy the exchange, and hope that you aren't put off by my strong wording. I am not insulted by yours! --Joe! |