Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223859 | ||
Part 1 CDBJ Acts16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Why did you neglect to mention that Paul did express that all the household were baptized immediately. Acts16:33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. You make this statement 1 "Anyone depending on their works by being baptized by water for salvation has actually destroyed their hope for salvation." 2 "Faith for salvation must be an “undivided trust” in what God did for mankind in the person of His Son Jesus Christ." This is the point where you are missing the understanding "Anyone depending on their works by being baptized" In order for this statement of yours to be true and fill the position of their works like you are saying then the act of baptism itself would have to come from their own head that baptism was something they could do in order to gain salvation but as you can see it was a mandate to the disciples from Jesus Himself. By that mandate it is showing that baptism is not in the realm of - - their works. Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Moving on we see that Paul says we have repented from dead works. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, By our accepting Christ for the forgiveness of sin we have ceased from our works. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Take note that these two verses in Ephesians are the same as the one in Titus except the one in Titus shows us how this takes place. That through baptism we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. You can then see this work as you call baptism is something God through the Holy Spirit does not us because we have come into His rest the work of baptism having been ordained before the foundations of the world that we would walk in it. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Godinus |
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2 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Beja | 223861 | ||
Godinus, You've written so much I think its a little beyond me to respond to the entirety of it as it deserves, as it would require a very massive post. However, let me show a few examples of the assumptions and poor exegesis that characterises your whole post. You said, "In order for this statement of yours to be true and fill the position of their works like you are saying then the act of baptism itself would have to come from their own head that baptism was something they could do in order to gain salvation but as you can see it was a mandate to the disciples from Jesus Himself. By that mandate it is showing that baptism is not in the realm of - - their works." So anything Jesus commands us to do becomes not a work? Jesus commanded a great many things including to do all that the pharisees commanded because they sat in the seat of Moses, and to be perfect as our Father in heaven was perfect. So now because Christ commanded them I can validly say that this is how you must be saved and I'm completely immune to the accusation that I'm preaching a works rightousness? Where are you getting such a notion from? The truth is that Christ did command us to do some works, but that does not mean everything he commanded us is the means of salvation. Next, the rest being spoken of in Hebrews four seems to be a future rest, not at all speaking of a rest from the law currently in Christ. The verse in Titus never even mentions baptism! On the contrary it says "by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit." The regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit is being called a washing. In fact this is what we affirm. I'm still not sure how you are trying to connect this verse to the ones in Ephesians. Are you suggesting that the works mentioned in Ephesians 2:10 is referring to the work of baptism? If so I am baffled as to how you can come to this conclusion since it lacks any basis whatsoever. You are just saying a great deal of unfounded things then dressing them in some very missaplied scriptures. Also this seems to be a very far cry from you encouraging me to just let everybody believe what they desire and that doctrine is devisive so lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration. In Christ, Beja |
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3 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Beja | 223862 | ||
I found a great quote from A.T. Robertson while doing a search on this stuff. For those who don't know who he is, his book on greek grammer is basically a major milestone in greek studies still to this day referenced by greek scholars. Here is what he has to say about Acts 2:38 This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology. In themselves the words can express aim or purpose for that use of "eis" does exist as in 1 Cor. 2:7....But then another usage exists which is just as good Greek as the use of "eis" for aim or purpose. It is seen in Matt. 10:41 in three examples "eis onoma prophetou, diakaiou, mathetou" where it cannot be purpose or aim, but rather the basis or ground, on the basis of the name of prophet, righteous man, disciple, because one is, etc. It is seen again in Matt. 12:41 about the preaching of Jonah....They repented because of (or at) the preaching of Jonah. The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koine generally (Robertson, Grammar, p. 592). One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, III:35-36). Incase any couldn't follow what he is saying, the big daddy of greek grammer says that it is a perfectly and equally valid use of greek grammer to translate Acts 2:38 as, "because of/based upon the forgiveness of sins" rather than "for the forgiveness of sins." And that this other option is so equally a valid way to translate it, that one will ultimately decide based on their own theological bent. In Christ, Beja |
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