Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Morant61 | 83827 | ||
Greetings Ray! I would take just a little different approach on Eph. 1:20 and 22. Here is how I would translate them. "which He worked in Christ, having raised Him from the dead and having seated (Him) at His right in the heavens...and having put all things under His feet , He gave Him (to be) Head over all the Church." Here is why I differ a little. All of the verbs which I have translated as 'having...' in these two verses are Aorist, Active, Participles. They indicate action which took place prior to the action of the main verb or verbs. In these two verses, the only regular verbs are 'He worked' and 'He gave'. They are really the focus of the sentences. So, God worked in Christ and gave Christ to be the Head of the Church after He had already done the following things: 1) ...raised Him from the dead. 2) ...seated Him at His right. 3) ...put all thing under His feet. The only 'complaint' I would have with Dr. Green's translation is that it doesn't make it as clear that these three things took place prior to the 'working' and 'giving'. But, this simply reflects the 'art' of translation! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Ray | 148171 | ||
Hi Tim, Now I am considering with Steve in the thread below whether to include the "He made alive" that is found in Ephesians 2:1, NKJ. My copy of Dr. Green's translation reads, "and (He worked in) you being dead in trespasses and sins," So here is the "art" of translation in that he is now saying how God is working in us after the three things took place, namely Jesus raised, seated, with all things under His feet. I would connect and compare Ephesians 2:1 with Ephesians 1:3 for we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. We would appreciate your input. From the heart, Ray |
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3 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Morant61 | 148173 | ||
Greetings Ray! I had thought about entering this discussion! :-) For what they are worth, here are my translations of the two verses: Eph. 1:3 - "Blessed (be) the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places," Eph. 2:1 - "And when you were dead in wrongdoing and in your sins," Personally, I would not add the (He worked in) to verse one. There simply isn't any textual justification for adding it. However, part of the problem is that this one sentence covers seven verses. The following is one sentence in Eph. 2:1-7 (my translation): "And when you were dead in wrong doings and in your sins, in which at one time you lived according to the order of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit who know works in the sons of disobedience: among whom we also all lived at one time in the desires of our flesh, doing the will and the thoughts of the flesh, and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest (were): but God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love (with) which He loved us, even when we wer dead in sins, He made (us) alive together with Chrit, - by grace you are saved - and He raised (us) and sat (us) together with Chrit Jesus in the heavens, so that He might sho, in the coming ages, the immerasurable wealth of His grace with mercy toward us in Christ Jesus." Whew! As you can see, the literal Greek is very confusing! ;-) The main verbs are quite clear though! God has: - made us alive (2:5). - raised us together (2:6). - and, sat us together (2:6). My personal preference is to always translate participles in such a way that it is clear in English that the verb is a participle and not a main verb. Otherwise, one can get quite confused. For example, there is only one command in the Great Commission - 'to go'. Everything else in the verse is a participle describing what we are to be doing as we go. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Ray | 148180 | ||
Hi Tim, Thank you for your participation. You have written that there are two verbs in Ephesians 2:6. However, in your literal Greek long sentence the "sat us together" lacks a pronoun. I would see four nouns and pronouns for the verse. The NKJ reads, "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." I believe that we agree that there are four occurances of Deity in the verse. The NASB has four occurances but we would say that the pronouns should be placed with the verbs. I think you would agree with, "and He raised us up together, and He sat us together in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus." So, positionally believers are in Christ Jesus but we just aren't "with Him" yet. We are blessed with every spiritual blessing which He bestows on us, having been predestined to adoption as sons. Compare Ephesians 2:6 with Colossians 2:12. Colossians 2:12, "having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Also Colossians 3:2, "Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory." I want to express comparisons besides Eph 1:3 that would suggest a pronoun (or a verb?) for Ephesians 2:1, but not now. Later? From the heart, Ray |
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5 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Morant61 | 148186 | ||
Greetings Ray! As we have discussed before my friend, Greek verbs have 'built in' pronouns. So, in the case of the second verb, it is simply a stylistic preference of mine not to repeat the 'built in' pronoun. But, I would certainly not have any problem with including it either. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | How does this order of authority work? | Eph 1:20 | Ray | 148223 | ||
Hi Tim, Thank you for that reminder of the built-in pronouns. My thought that was that the verbs, in order to show the different actions, could use the pronouns. Yet I hear what you are saying. 1) For Ephesians 1:22, the NKJ has a pronoun for "And He put all things in subjection". You choose to translate it "And having put all things in subjection" because you see that verb as being done before He gave Him as Head to the church. And I agree with your translating choice. However, after He fills the church in Ephesians 1:23, I see the need for the pronoun and verb saying that He made us alive; we who were dead in trespasses and sins. In other words, I see the need for a pronoun for Eph 1:22 "And He put" OR for Ephesians 2:1 "and you He made alive." My choice would be for "And you He made alive." 1) I would compare Ephesians 1:22 with 1 Corinthians 11:11-16. Ephesians 1:23 with 1 Corinthians 11:20-22. Ephesians 1:23 with 1 Corinthians 15:38. 2) Ephesians 2:1, NKJ, "And you **He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins," 1 Corinthians 15:45, "So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last **Adam [became] a life-giving spirit." From the heart, Ray |
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