Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Morant61 | 187865 | ||
Greetings Psalm25! You wrote: "The free will mentality is a "Johnny come lately." Historical Christianity considered it "a herisy (sic)."" Here are a few quotes that demonstrate a historical belief in free will in the early church. ********** Justin Martyr (a.d. 100-165) "God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness. But if the Word of God foretells that some angels and men shall certainly be punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeable (wicked), but not because God created them so. So if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God (Dialogue, CXLI)." Irenaeus (A.D. 130-200) "This expression, "How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldst not," set fort the ancient law of human liberty, because God made mad a free (agent) from the beginning, possessing his own soul to obey the behests of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God....If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things and to abstain from others? But because man is possessed of free will from the beginning, and God is possessed of free will in whose likeness man was created, advice is always given to him to keep fast the good, which thing is done by means of obedience to God (Against Heresies, XXXVII)" Athenagoras of Athens (Second century) "Just as with men who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honor the good or punish the bad; unless vice and virtue were in their own power, and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them, and others faithless), so it is among the angels (Embassy for Christians, XXIV)" Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215) "But we, who have heard by the Scriptures that self-determining choice and refusal have been given by the Lord to men, rest in the infallible criterion of faith, manifesting a willing Spirit, since we have chosen life and believe God through His voice (Stromata, 2.4)" Tertullian (155-225) "I find, then, that man was by God constituted free, master of his own will and power; indicating the presence of God's image and likeness in him by nothing so well as by this constitution of his nature...and this on no other ground than that man is free, will a will either for obedience or resistance...(Against Marcion, 2.5) There are many more such quotes from the early church fathers. For more, I would recommend Norman Geisler's, "Chosen but Free: A Balanced View of Divine Election". The quotes above are found on pages 150-153. So, right or wrong, a belief in free will has been around since the early church, at least! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | InGodITrust | 187878 | ||
Tim, Greetings, I am new to the forum. I am having a hard time figuring out where all this started? However, I would like to make one comment about those you listed in history as men of God who supported free will. Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Athenagoras of Athens, Irenaeus, and Justin Martyr. Have you personally looked into what all these guys believed and taught? Not to mention they are (all) Catholic? Don't get me wrong Christian Catholics that are born again, I am not addressing. From the conservative history I have read about, those guys don't make the list. Just a thought............? God's speed Tim, InGodITrust |
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3 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | Morant61 | 187887 | ||
Greetings Tim! It is nice to have another Tim on board! ;-) I am certainly no expert on the teachings of all of these guys. I was simply responding to the claim that the early church fathers did not believe in free will. These quotes make it clear that they did. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Can you lose your salvation? | Eph 1:13 | InGodITrust | 187888 | ||
Tim, Yes they do, those quotes make it clear they did. However, my understanding is those guys were on "the fringes." They were not (at all) in the majority and did not have an influence on "the main body of believers" in the conservative, fundamental arena. There's was not the excepted view of the conservative church fathers. And, as noted they followed many of the teachings of the Catholic Church and not those "outside of Rome." Something to look into. Historically the free will position has not been held by the vast majority of those in the traditional and conservative camps. Yes, the free will position has been around along time, but not by those whose over-all doctrines were held in esteem. By the way, my name is not Tim; I was addressing you. I will stick with InHimITrust for now. God Bless |
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