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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223122 | ||
Brother Beja According to the verses you have used, there is a remnant, (Rom.11:1-6). You are right again when you say God chose them by his grace. You are correct, God is sovereign, and the election is purely by grace. No argument from me:-) What you have just posted Rom.11:1-6 which is talking about the Jews of that time, the remnant which is being spoken of are clearly the Jewish believers, which are identified in Rom.11:5,7, therefore this passage of scripture doesn't then apply to us of today, in other words "WE" are not the remnant spoken of in these passages, they were. There was a specific point being made by Paul about the Jews in this chapter wasn't there? There are only two verses in the New Test. speaking of a remnant, both are speaking of the Jewish believers Rom.9:27, and Rom.11:5. You are right once more, nowhere does Paul say, STOP, WAIT HOLD IT you are misunderstanding me ! ! So I will, stop, wait, hold it, you are misunderstanding me. Here again is my original statement. "However even Ephesians 1:4-6 does not speak of a remnant, chosen by His own counsel, before creation, for salvation. As a matter of fact, I can't find anywhere in scripture where it does say what you have just espoused." Please correct me if I am wrong, in grammar, the use of the word (remnant), denotes that there was originally a whole, therefore a remnant would then constitute only a small part of that whole, would it not? At this point I have to say, if the statement which was made, was made with the broadest possible understanding ie, that all Christians for the last two thousand years, constitute only a remnant of all of the people ever created, then I would have to concur with this belief also. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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2 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | Beja | 223123 | ||
Dear Lightedsteps, This was the phrase that I was responding to: "However even the Ephesians verses, do not speak of a remnant chosen by His own counsel, before creation, for salvation. As a matter of fact, I can't find anywhere in scripture where it does say what you have just espoused." You stated nowhere in scripture is this stated. In response to Romans chapter 11, after speaking of the Israelites in that time, he says that at the present time a there is also a remnant according to God's gracious choice. I believe that when Paul says at the present time, he does in fact mean at the present time. He is not suggesting that in the time around the writing of this letter there is a God chosen remnant, but in 2000ad there will not be a God chosen remnant. Yes he is speaking of Jews here, but do you mean to suggest that God does predestine Jews for salvation, but does not predestine gentiles? As I stated, I do not intend to convince you of election. I think trying to do so would likely be less than edifying and possibly in violation of the user agreement since we agree not to argue about any issue that is knowingly devisive. People may disagree whether this topic fits that description. But what I do intend to accomplish is to not let the above quote go uncorrected. If people choose not to believe in election it does not mean that they should pretend there is no scriptural basis for it. I whole heartedly believe nobody can loose their salvation, but I don't treat lightly those who do. Why? Because there are a lot of passages that, in the absence of a lot of scripture restraining our interpretation, can in fact strongly lead us to that conclusion. The truth is the amount of scripture that indicates God chooses from the foundation of the world, individuals whom he will effectually bring about the salvation of while he passes over others is overwhelming. I do not intend to argue whether it is in the verses quoted by Doc, but simply to address the suggestion that it is nowhere to be found. In Christ, Beja |
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