Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Beja | 214833 | ||
To all who responded to me, My apologies for taking so long to respond! I'm on vacation currently. It seems the discussion has left me behind to the point that my answers now are moot but I'll say a few things. First let me preface with a few points. 1. I in no way ment for my brief answer to be smug. My only intentions were to bring up that there was an entire theological presupposition behind the answers given and if you wanted to be sure of the answers, you had to agree with the presuppositions. I have my own view through which I read scripture, so I don't mean to insult anybody by saying you have presuppositions. 2. I highly respect the view that says we are now to be cheerful givers and that will typically manifest itself in giving much more than a tithe. I don't agree with it, but I certainly respect the brothers and sisters who hold that view. It shows a good heart even if I am correct in thinking it shows flawed assumptions. 3. Finally, I offer further thoughts concerning the church and Israel only in the spirit of enjoyable discussion. My view is that when Christ came what constituted the people of God changed. Not replaced, changed. The people of God was no longer a national identity, but with the influx of all believers of all peoples it grew into the church. Galatians 3, Romans 4 and 9 and 11 reflect this view point. All the promises of Israel belong to us, the church, not the nation. (with a few exceptions that are extremely short term promises.) So the old testament is not ancient history that has no meaning to us because it was God's working with a different people. That is the story of God dealing with his people, of whom we are a part. The question comes then, am I saying we still are under the law? Not in the same sense the jews were. The law of sacrifices, the laws of ceremonial distinctions for the sake of keeping jews visably seperate from other nations, no, those have nothing to do with us except to teach us that we as Christians are to be distinct, or to teach us as Christians something about what Christ's sacrifice meant. The moral laws however, not to steal, not to covet, not to murder...shall any of you argue that those are not the expectations of our God on us today? They no longer carry the sting of judgement for those who are in Christ but as an expectation they do. In fact living in sin with regards to these things without repentance is a pretty good indication that somebody has never come to Christ by faith and repentance. So the question then becomes where do tithes fall into place in this scheme? My opinion, its a moral issue. So in summary, I believe the Church is the true Israel. Why? Because I think Paul and therefore the new testament teaches that. And IF that is what the New Testament teaches, all our arguements mean nothing. I don't care how much or how little you think it makes sense, I intend to subject my thinking to correction by scripture. I use to hold a dispensational view, after enough reading of scripture, I saw that needed correcting. Sorry if this is unclear, I am on vacation without my books, also clearly I mean to offer this as explination of my views rather than a detailed defense. In Love, Beja |
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2 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 214859 | ||
Beja, Can I ask why you feel tithes fall under the moral law or are still morally binding? Stand in His grace, WOS |
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3 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Beja | 214862 | ||
Dear Wild Olive Shoot, That really has become the next question hasn't it? And a very fair one I might add. First, it is important to consider that the first time we see tithing is not in the law, but rather in Abraham tithing to Melchizedek in Genesis Chapter 14. Now, why would Abraham do this? My suggested answer is that God had taught his people more about relating to Him than is revealed to you and I in the first 14 chapters of Genesis. I think the notion of honoring God with the first fruits of your increase is a moral teaching that God has always taught His people before even the law. It is a moral issue because it is not a matter of symbolism, but rather a matter of Christlikeness (being a giver) and a matter of honoring God. This is the very essensce of being a moral issue rather than ceremony. Now, I will grant this is hardly an answer that proves my view point as it relies very heavily on my assumptions I bring to that passage to interpret it. A second reason that it makes sense to me is that this is exactly how you would teach a child to become a giver. I have a daughter, I will require my daughter to give in order to help shape her into a giver. Now, the goal is for her to become somebody who gives without compulsion. But in order to create that you don't just say to a child, do whatever you please and I shall hope you choose what is good. No, first you require some giving in order to teach them that this is important, and in my family we will do so. Second, you encourage, bless, and praise further giving so that the child is moving from knowing this is important, to developing a taste and love for it. This is exactly what I perceive God to be doing in tithes and offerings. Now, I whole heartedly agree that what I have said does not prove my stance. But as I said in a previous post, I very much appreciate the view point of a Christian that says we are to give willingly and sacrificially and if we follow the Spirit's lead in this its probably going to be more than a tenth. I would not spend my time arguing with such a generous heart. My entrance in this discussion was instead based on the answers assuming a dispensational view point for instruction. Hope this helps. In Love, Beja |
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4 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 214874 | ||
Dear Beja, Thank you much for your response. I want to say as well, I appreciate the use of the “Tell” in your previous post. Just one note concerning giving and what you have stated in this current post I am responding to. I myself have three children and I too try to instill into them a spirit of giving because I feel that is one of my responsibilities in raising them correctly. However, I’ve come to fear that if I simply rely on my teaching and put my hope in that, I’m setting myself up for disappointment. What is it that gives us the desire to give in the first place and the longing to continue? “The fruits of righteousness are the evidences and effects of our sanctification, the duties of holiness springing from a renewed heart, the root of the matter in us. Being filled with them. Observe, Those who do much good should still endeavour to do more. The fruits of righteousness, brought forth for the glory of God and edification of his church, should really fill us, and wholly take us up. Fear not being emptied by bringing forth the fruits of righteousness, for you will be filled with them. These fruits are by Jesus Christ, by his strength and grace, for without him we can do nothing. He is the root of the good olive, from which it derives its fatness. We are strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus (2Ti_2:1) and strengthened with might by his Spirit (Eph_3:16), and they are unto the glory and praise of God. We must not aim at our own glory in our fruitfulness, but at the praise and glory of God, that God may be glorified in all things (1Pe_4:11), and whatsoever we do we must do all to the glory of God, 1Co_10:31. It is much for the honour of God, when Christians not only are good, but do good, and abound in good works.” – Matthew Henry I want to also add, I appreciate what you have been contributing to the forum. Stand in His grace, WOS |
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5 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Val | 214886 | ||
Dear wow, since you seem to understand the "tell", could you tell me what it is, and give one example from scripture? I appreciate it. Sincerely, val | ||||||
6 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 214892 | ||
Dear Sister Val, To avoid getting into the debate let me “tell” you where I stand :) I am not a dispensationalist and rather feel Covenantalism is a better way to view how God has dealt with us throughout time. I have a feeling that scares you a bit based on your previous posts or makes you uncomfortable. It shouldn’t. In my week and feeble attempt to study and live for God, that has become the prevalent view for me to take, although it wasn’t always. I liked Beja’s use of the “tell” because I been through the same realization. That is all. He explained it well enough in his post. Rather than post all of the Scripture I’ll simply direct you to a website that should answer for you my position on it. http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ It is a link to the Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter VII. Stand in His grace, WOS |
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7 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Val | 214896 | ||
Dear wos, I agree. I do not want to debate either. Could you give me one verse of scripture in the old testament and tell me how you interpret it. Do you interpret the abrahamic covenant literally? If not why not? I don"t understand how that's a bad thing. How do you explain the promise God made to give Abraham and his descendants the land and called it an everlasting covenant? Again, I am not a dispensationalist. Just trying to understand truth for myself. Thanking you in advance. Val | ||||||
8 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Wild Olive Shoot | 214906 | ||
Yes I do take it literally for there is not any reason to consider it otherwise. The question with the Abrahamic Covenant is whether or not you view it as conditional or unconditional. If you view it as unconditional, one has to ask the question, what happened to Esau? Deuteronomy 30 shows the promise to be conditional. Only those with faith become heirs and that is through Christ. Deuteronomy 30:16-20: 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." As far as the land promise all cam to pass, Joshua 21:43 – 45: 43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44 And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass. Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. It is expanded to include the whole world. Val, I try, and sometimes am not very good simply because I’m not at studied as some, to take the Bible in its totality. I’m getting better thanks be to God. Looking at individual parts and pieces can leave us wondering sometimes as I often have. Looking at the complete revelation that God has graciously given us in regard to that wondering, usually brings to light things that weren’t once illuminated. All to His glory. Stand in His grace, WOS |
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9 | Is tithing a command for chriatians? | 2 Cor 9:7 | Val | 214914 | ||
Dear wos, thank you so much. I thought you did a super job of stating your view and used cross references to explain it. This is what I have been seeking all day. Now I can study these passages. Thank you so much. Your sister in Christ, val | ||||||