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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | azurelaw | 215110 | ||
Dear Mike, I hope the below from John MacArthur would shed some light for our understanding: ****** "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God [lit. 'a god']; for no man understandeth him; however, in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." a. The Principal Purpose Violated What Paul is saying is this: "You people with your pagan ecstasies are not doing what all spiritual gifts were given to do--minister (or speak) to men. Rather, you are all wrapped up in speaking pagan mysteries in ecstatic speech to a god. Nobody can even understand what you're saying!" Paul's not referring to the mysteries (Gk. musterion) of God or the mysteries that he taught, he's referring to the mysteries of paganism. Now let me give you a basic, bottom-line truth: All spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of ministering (or speaking) to men. No spiritual gift was ever given for the purpose of ministering to God. All spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ by ministering to the members of the body. God doesn't need us to minister a spiritual gift to Him--He's not incomplete! So Paul is saying, "You have fallen down on the basic use of spiritual gifts--their use among men to build up the body. The tongues speaking that you are involved in, however, is not for men, it's for a god." By the way, the word "God" does not have an article in the Greek (the anarthrous construction). And because of the context, I think it's better translated "a god" rather than referring to the true God. In other words, they were involved in ecstatic communication with some pagan god, and speaking in pagan mysteries. And they were violating the principal purpose of spiritual gifts--the fact that they are to be ministered to other people in the body of Christ. God certainly didn't need them to talk to Him in some ecstatic gibberish! ******* Shalom Azure |
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2 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | Beja | 215111 | ||
Dear Azure, While you are getting at something very important in your post, namely that the focus should be on the edification of others, your post concerns me on one account. I very well may be misreading your post but I get the impression that you are saying something along the lines of: -Paul was catagorically dismissing speaking in tongues as an intrussion of pagan religion into Christianity. The main evidence that it is not truely a spiritual gift was that it does not edify other men.- Now, if I've misread you, forgive me. However, if I am correct allow me to give you a few verses to consider. 1 Cor 14:5 "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues but even more that you would prophesy." While Paul clearly says that tongues is a less desirable gift in comparison to the ones that edify the Church as a whole, he still claims it is a desirable gift. Next, he even claims this as a gift he participates in. 1 Cor 14:18 "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all" And if there is any doubt whether he was referring to a speaking in tongues that others could not understand he continues in the next verse to say... 1 Cor 14:19 "however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue." So while you are touching on a very much needed point in charismatic circles, namely that they have over desired and over emphasized speaking in tongues rather than gifts that edify the church, do not go so far as to read Paul as condeming this as a non Christian gift. For Paul's summary is this: Pursue love, desire prophecy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. (1 Cor 14:1,39) But as I said, if I've misread your statements, forgive me. In Love, Beja |
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3 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | azurelaw | 215248 | ||
Dear Brother Beja, Thank you for asking and sorry for my late reply. I did not realize my post was so muddy:-( It is my fault. To answer your 2 questions in short - “Paul was categorically dismissing speaking in tongues as an intrusion of pagan religion into Christianity. The main evidence that it is not truly a spiritual gift was that it does not edify other men.” - “…do not go so far as to read Paul as condemning this as a non Christian gift…” It is a big NO to both :-) Let me try to see if I can explain myself better (sometimes I fail to make myself understood even in my own tongue, so please bear with me). By the way, I am open to be corrected as well. Speaking in tongues itself is not an intrusion of pagan religion into Christianity as it has been evidenced with the origin in Acts during the Pentecost. My understanding of speaking in tongues (plural) is a miraculous sign that the Holy Spirit empowers true believers to speak languages that they have never learnt of. Why I emphasized the plural form of “tongues” as I see it in contrast to 1 Cor 14:2 where it uses a singular form “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue…” that I view it as Paul’s denoting it the form of gibberish the Corinthians adopted (of course this is only my personal view and I could be very wrong on this, please correct me if so) for Paul always used the plural form for the gift of Tongues. For 1 Cor 14:2, as far as I understand it, Paul was criticizing the Corinthian’s abusive use/practice/counterfeit of speaking in tongues. As per the historical background provided by John MacArthur, the Corinthians were carnal minded (this we can see from Paul’s letter to them) and affected by the pagan religion - “…But as we come to the Corinthian situation, we find that they had counterfeited the real gift of tongues and substituted an ecstatic kind of speech that we very common in pagan religions…At the time of Corinthian church, the Greco-Roman world had a multitude of gods. In their worship of these gods, it was very common for a person to go into ecstasy, which literally means 'to go out of oneself'…this language of the gods was always gibberish…” (John MacArthur) So much has been discussed on the topic about speaking in tongues and I really lack the ability to contribute more to the discussion. I’d rather commend an article by Fred Zaspel where he has a systematic discussion on the Gift of Tongues at : http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/spiritualgifts/ch18.htm I hope I did not muddy further while I was answering and typing in “tongues”. Shalom Azure |
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