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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | Searcher56 | 215041 | ||
God's day to you, walkforchrist, My view about tongues ...................... This is from a couple of my old posts: Only twice, thrice if you count Acts 2:4-11, of the ten conversion experiences, In Acts, did the new Christian speak in tongues: -2:41 ... 3,000 saved. The 120 spoke in known languages (2:6 ff) -2:27 ... many daily -4:4 ... 5,000 saved -8:14-17 ... Samaritans -8:34-39 ... Ethopian -9:5-19 ... Paul (tho he spoke in tongues later (1 Cor 13:1)) (1) 10:44-48 ... Cornelius and his house ... they did speak in tongues -16:14-15 ... Lydia -16:31-34 ... jailer and his house (2) 19:5-7 ... about 12 disciples of John ... they did speak in tongues. Take note ... Tongues is always a known language ... in every case in the NT -Mark 16:17 ... new to them ... -Acts 2:4-11 ... This fulfills Mark 16:17 ... and they are speaking someone elses language (tongue) -Acts 10:46, 19:6 ... we don't know which languages they spoke ... a mini Pentecost. -1 Cor 12:4-11 ... tongues is one of many gifts of the Spirit vs 10 ... it is a gift needed in the church ... so that when foreigners come or they go to another language group, they are understood. vs 11 ... the Holy Spirit is the one who determines who will get ehat gift, including tongues vs 28 ... notice the placement order of the gift, it is not a greater gift vs 30 ... not everyone will speak with tongues (14:23) vs 31 ... since it is a lesser gift, we should not eagerly desire the gift of tongues. -1 Cor 13:1 ... what language did the angels speak to men? I think it was in language of the hearer. vv 8-10 ... tongues is temporal and will cease by themselves (knowledge and prophecy will cease when the prefect comes) -1 Cor 14:2 ... tongues does not speak to men but to God vs 4 ... tongues edifies oneself (is that selfish?) vs 5 ... prophesies is greater than tongues vs 6 ... tongues is unprofitable (is that good?) vs 9 ... unknown speech is speaking into the air - worthless (is that good?) vs 13 ... need interpetation (vs 5) vs 14 ... pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful (is that good?) vs 18 ... I believe when Paul said that "I speak in tongues more than you all", it was because he used the gift to each place he went. See below. vs 19 ... instruction over tongues vs 21 ... tongues is lips of strangers vs 22 ... tongues are for a sign to unbelievers, prophecy is for believers (KEY POINT) vs 27 ... tongues spoken one at a time, then interpeted ... and at the most three speak (not as a group) vs 39 ... don't forbid to speak in tongues - the downfall of some. There is a balance. While Alexander the Great spread the use of Greek to the places Paul vitited, the natives still spoke in their own language ... look at Pentecost. Also Acts 14:8-11, where in Lystra they spoke Lycaonian, not Greek. Satanists were the first babble, like some churches practice today: http://members.aol.com/loveogod1/tdm/theplan.htm http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1253.cfm Now you need to search the Scripture ro see if what I say, and others, is the truth or trash. Searcher |
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2 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | strts5 | 215109 | ||
1 Cor 14:2 It is an unknown language only speaking to God. How could that mean some other known language. I don't think God would give me gift of speaking French to only speak to Him. That makes no sense! | ||||||
3 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | azurelaw | 215110 | ||
Dear Mike, I hope the below from John MacArthur would shed some light for our understanding: ****** "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God [lit. 'a god']; for no man understandeth him; however, in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." a. The Principal Purpose Violated What Paul is saying is this: "You people with your pagan ecstasies are not doing what all spiritual gifts were given to do--minister (or speak) to men. Rather, you are all wrapped up in speaking pagan mysteries in ecstatic speech to a god. Nobody can even understand what you're saying!" Paul's not referring to the mysteries (Gk. musterion) of God or the mysteries that he taught, he's referring to the mysteries of paganism. Now let me give you a basic, bottom-line truth: All spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of ministering (or speaking) to men. No spiritual gift was ever given for the purpose of ministering to God. All spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ by ministering to the members of the body. God doesn't need us to minister a spiritual gift to Him--He's not incomplete! So Paul is saying, "You have fallen down on the basic use of spiritual gifts--their use among men to build up the body. The tongues speaking that you are involved in, however, is not for men, it's for a god." By the way, the word "God" does not have an article in the Greek (the anarthrous construction). And because of the context, I think it's better translated "a god" rather than referring to the true God. In other words, they were involved in ecstatic communication with some pagan god, and speaking in pagan mysteries. And they were violating the principal purpose of spiritual gifts--the fact that they are to be ministered to other people in the body of Christ. God certainly didn't need them to talk to Him in some ecstatic gibberish! ******* Shalom Azure |
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4 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | Beja | 215111 | ||
Dear Azure, While you are getting at something very important in your post, namely that the focus should be on the edification of others, your post concerns me on one account. I very well may be misreading your post but I get the impression that you are saying something along the lines of: -Paul was catagorically dismissing speaking in tongues as an intrussion of pagan religion into Christianity. The main evidence that it is not truely a spiritual gift was that it does not edify other men.- Now, if I've misread you, forgive me. However, if I am correct allow me to give you a few verses to consider. 1 Cor 14:5 "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues but even more that you would prophesy." While Paul clearly says that tongues is a less desirable gift in comparison to the ones that edify the Church as a whole, he still claims it is a desirable gift. Next, he even claims this as a gift he participates in. 1 Cor 14:18 "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all" And if there is any doubt whether he was referring to a speaking in tongues that others could not understand he continues in the next verse to say... 1 Cor 14:19 "however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue." So while you are touching on a very much needed point in charismatic circles, namely that they have over desired and over emphasized speaking in tongues rather than gifts that edify the church, do not go so far as to read Paul as condeming this as a non Christian gift. For Paul's summary is this: Pursue love, desire prophecy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. (1 Cor 14:1,39) But as I said, if I've misread your statements, forgive me. In Love, Beja |
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5 | speaking in tounges | 1 Cor 12:30 | azurelaw | 215248 | ||
Dear Brother Beja, Thank you for asking and sorry for my late reply. I did not realize my post was so muddy:-( It is my fault. To answer your 2 questions in short - “Paul was categorically dismissing speaking in tongues as an intrusion of pagan religion into Christianity. The main evidence that it is not truly a spiritual gift was that it does not edify other men.” - “…do not go so far as to read Paul as condemning this as a non Christian gift…” It is a big NO to both :-) Let me try to see if I can explain myself better (sometimes I fail to make myself understood even in my own tongue, so please bear with me). By the way, I am open to be corrected as well. Speaking in tongues itself is not an intrusion of pagan religion into Christianity as it has been evidenced with the origin in Acts during the Pentecost. My understanding of speaking in tongues (plural) is a miraculous sign that the Holy Spirit empowers true believers to speak languages that they have never learnt of. Why I emphasized the plural form of “tongues” as I see it in contrast to 1 Cor 14:2 where it uses a singular form “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue…” that I view it as Paul’s denoting it the form of gibberish the Corinthians adopted (of course this is only my personal view and I could be very wrong on this, please correct me if so) for Paul always used the plural form for the gift of Tongues. For 1 Cor 14:2, as far as I understand it, Paul was criticizing the Corinthian’s abusive use/practice/counterfeit of speaking in tongues. As per the historical background provided by John MacArthur, the Corinthians were carnal minded (this we can see from Paul’s letter to them) and affected by the pagan religion - “…But as we come to the Corinthian situation, we find that they had counterfeited the real gift of tongues and substituted an ecstatic kind of speech that we very common in pagan religions…At the time of Corinthian church, the Greco-Roman world had a multitude of gods. In their worship of these gods, it was very common for a person to go into ecstasy, which literally means 'to go out of oneself'…this language of the gods was always gibberish…” (John MacArthur) So much has been discussed on the topic about speaking in tongues and I really lack the ability to contribute more to the discussion. I’d rather commend an article by Fred Zaspel where he has a systematic discussion on the Gift of Tongues at : http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/spiritualgifts/ch18.htm I hope I did not muddy further while I was answering and typing in “tongues”. Shalom Azure |
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