Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What liquid was in the communion cup? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Morant61 | 232986 | ||
Good info Ed! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | 00123 | 232988 | ||
And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the LORD, he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried. All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins. (Numbers 6:1-4 ESV) Nazirites didn't drink wine at all, which is an example there were people who never drank alcohol in their life. Then, what is the biblical (not customs) basis that we should assume that Jesus, who came on earth with a mission of more importance than that of Nazirite, drank wine and that early church believers drank wine in the communion, when no Bible verse specifically indicated so? |
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3 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Beja | 232989 | ||
00123, It is my personal belief that this passage states that Jesus did drink wine of the alchololic variety. Mat 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." This was contrasted with John the baptist who came "neither eating nor drinking." Now I doubt it meant that John the Baptist had found a way to survive apart from food and water. The notion seems to be with regards to eating in some kind of festive context and alcoholic beverage. Therefore if that is its reference in the previous verse, I must conclude that it is what Jesus meant in this verse. Also it gives the basis of the Pharisee's wrongly accusing him of drunkeness. I am NOT suggesting that Jesus was ever drunk. In Christ, Beja |
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4 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | 00123 | 232993 | ||
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), he left Judea and departed again for Galilee. (John 4:1-3 ESV) Like above, the Pharisees and non-believers believed in and acted on rumors, not solid facts. Likewise, people's accusation on Jesus (Matt 11:19 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard') was wrong. I just wanted to know Bible-based facts, neither the Israeli customs of the first century nor anyone's speculations. |
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5 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Beja | 232996 | ||
00123, I grant that the accussation of the pharisee's was unfounded. But it was Christ who said that he "came drinking" and that John came "not drinking." So whatever Jesus meant here by that is true, not speculation. Those words do mean something. It is my opinion that their meaning directly answers your question. Here is why I think it answers your question. What possible meaning can we give to Jesus' statement that he "came drinking" which denies his consumption of alcohol and yet given that denial still makes sense of both John's "not drinking" and the reasonableness of the comparison being made in the passage. Here is an illustration of my point. Suppose somebody said: By saying he "came drinking" what Jesus really meant was that he was drinking grape juice. Then we have to say that "not drinking" for John was about him abstaining from grape juice. This makes little sense, and it doesn't make any sense of why Jesus would bring this up. A debate over obstaining from grape juice makes no sense. I can't think of any explination of the passage that doesn't break down unless we suggest that Christ did drink alcoholic beverages. And that this is exactly what he meant we he himself said that he "came drinking." At that point it makes perfect sense. The point then is that the pharisees were going to accuse of misconduct no matter what Jesus did. John didn't feast and drink alcoholic beverages and they called him a demon possessed fanatic. Jesus used such things in moderation and yet they accussed him in overindulgance with regards to both. He was in their estimate a glutton and a drunkard. There was no pleasing them no matter what path he took. Now you may think I'm wrong and that my exegisis of the passage falls very short, and that does not offend me. However I am attempting to give you a biblical answer. You might suggest my answer to be foolish, myself to be ignorant of facts, my tehcnique guilty of poorly interpreting scripture or several other possibilities, and all of these accusations may be true, but the one thing I am doing is answering you from scripture just like you requested. I am sorry it was unhelpful to you though, and I hope you are able to get a more productive answer from another member of the forum. (I say none of this in sarcasm.) In Christ, Beja |
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6 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Morant61 | 232999 | ||
Greetings Beja! You may very well be right, but there is another possibility. John was a Nazarite, so he was not allowed to have anything that was a product of the vine. So, he would not even be able to drink grape juice. So, the contrast could have been that Jesus drank grape juice and John didn't. We may never know. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Beja | 233004 | ||
Tim, Yes, that was a possibility I had considered. Personally, coming to the passage with no prior theological reasons to object to Jesus drinking wine (since I don't see scripture as forbidding it), I simply find the passage to be more coherant when understanding the reference to regard alcohol rather than grape juice. That being said I readily concede to your point that we can't be dogmatic about it. In fact, even if we could know for certain I believe this is one issue scripture actually commands us not to be dogmatic about. This is specifically one of the examples in Romans 14 concerning which we are to not cause trouble and division over. However, in this case scripture pertaining to the issue was specifically asked for. Also I personally do not drink, so I have no real incentive to press the point. And I certainly don't announce from the pulpit that I think Jesus drank. ;-) In Christ, Beja |
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8 | Did Jesus and early church drink wine? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Morant61 | 233009 | ||
Probably a good policy. ;-) Your brother in Christ Tim Moran |
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