Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Imputed Righteousness | Rom 4:6 | Reformer Joe | 52898 | ||
You wrote: "Phil 3:12 - You SERIOUSLY need to look at the context of this verse, bro. Paul is NOT talking about righteousness here, he is talking about physical resurrection - see vs 11,12." SERIOUSLY? ;) Let's look then: "More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." --Philippians 3:8-14 Hm...seems that righteousness is in view here. If Paul is describing our physical resurrection as "beoming perfect," how in the world is his striving and "pressing on" here on earth going to help him be resurrected? Will it bring Jesus sooner? Will it make him "more resurrected?" The resurrection of our bodies at the end of the age is not something that we work for, that we press on for. It is quite clear that the pressing on in this life is to become more perfect (as we see the goal is throughout the Scriptures for this life). This is not done apart from God, but we have not arrived yet at the inherent righteousness you want to attribute to us. Paul's words in Philippians 3 make absolutely no sense otherwise. You wrote: "According to 1 Thess 5:23, God sanctifies us 1) in spirit 2) in soul and 3) in body. Our spirit is ALREADY sanctified. Our soul is being sanctified and our body will one day be (not this one but) a sanctified one." Let's see: "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." --1 Thessalonians 5:23 This verse does not say that our spirits have been entirely sanctified! Now you are just making stuff up. The fact is that your view (1) is contrary to Scripture and has been soundly refuted in church history; (2) makes progressive sanctification meaningless, because we are "already righteous"; and (3) really, really minimizes what true righteousness is (what Christ alone has inherently possessed), which is always in harmony with one's beliefs, attitudes, and actions. You are not proclaiming the truth; you are assuming you are right, and demonstrating that you are quite unteachable. --Joe! |
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2 | What is the new self? | Rom 4:6 | ChristLifer2001 | 52910 | ||
Joe, !Hm...seems that righteousness is in view here. He is talking about attaining physical resurrection - the entire being being righteous - spirit, soul, and body. !It is quite clear that the pressing on in this life is to become more perfect (as we see the goal is throughout the Scriptures for this life). Then you are striving to become more perfect than Heb 10:14 says you are. More power to ya, bro. You are going to need it. According to 1 Thess 5:23, God sanctifies us 1) in spirit 2) in soul and 3) in body. Our spirit is ALREADY sanctified. Our soul is being sanctified and our body will one day be (not this one but) a sanctified one. When Paul talks about the "new self" that is created (not an act of process, bro, an act of God) in God's likeness - in righteousness and holiness - in Eph 4:24, what part of you is that? Can you answer this question? Will you? Paul says to put on (the greek stipulates a one-time act) the new self. What part of you is this, Joe? Paul says that 1) it is created 2) it is created in God's likeness (so it looks like Him but it is NOT Him) 3) it is righteous 4) it is holy and 5) this is truth. Can you define what this "new self", this "new man" is? I would like to hear your explanation. Your bro in Christ, ChristLifer2001 |
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3 | What is the new self? | Rom 4:6 | Reformer Joe | 52911 | ||
"Then you are striving to become more perfect than Heb 10:14 says you are. More power to ya, bro. You are going to need it." You keep on assuming that you are right in your interpretation of Hebrews 10:14. You aren't. I have already adressed both 1 Thess 5:23 and Ephesians 4:24. You repreating yourself contributes nothing to this discussion. Why don't you address what I wrote before instead of going in circles? You do not become more right the more times you say precisely the same thing. The old nature is one that was depraved and totally bent against God's law. Incapable of submitting to God's law. Totally depraved. The new nature is one that is disposed toward obeying God, and destined for glory. It is not perfect, but becoming so, by the power of the Holy Spirit's work of sanctification. Please explain in detail how the Greek stipulates a one-time act, not that it supports your point that we are already that new self and therefore should have no need to "put it on." --Joe! |
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4 | What is the new self? | Rom 4:6 | ChristLifer2001 | 52912 | ||
Joe, The only thing that you said about Eph 4:24 is this: 2. The new self is to be put on, which assumes that it hasn't been already. I am left to conclude then that you think that the new self gets put on when we die. The greek supports that this is a one-time act, not a process of sanctification. Seems funny that Paul would tell us to do this one time act but we have no choice over when we do it. Why would Paul tell us to do something that we cannot do? If it is a one-time act that we put on the new self sometime during our physical life, when do we do this? When we become righteous and holy enough? You still have not addressed my questions concerning this verse. Do you agree that the new self is created (not being created) in God's likeness and that it is righteous and holy? Your bro, ChristLifer2001 |
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5 | What is the new self? | Rom 4:6 | Reformer Joe | 52922 | ||
"I am left to conclude then that you think that the new self gets put on when we die." On what do you base that conclusion? I said that the "new self" is something that Christians are to put on, which means that it is not our present nature. We are in tension in this life between the "old self" and our "new self." The old self constantly needs to be put away. Look at the characteristics of the old self. I do not know how long it has been since God has called you to himself, but I would imagine that some of those aspects of the "old self" rear their ugly heads in your life like they do mine. Likewise, have either of us completely put on the "new self" as Paul describes it here? We certainly see some of the characteristics described in Ephesians 4 as characteristic of our new lives, but we have not completely burned the old garments. Notice also that the old self is something that is cast off and the new self is something that is put on. However, a new creature is what we ARE. See the difference here? The new creature that we are initially fits in the old clothes as well as the new ones, but as God gradually renews our mind and wills (Romans 12:1-2), we like the new threads a lot more and more. We gradually become in practice what God has declared us to be because of Christ. In other words, God DECLARES us righteous and then gradually MAKES us righteous (initial justification which initiates lifelong sanctification). --Joe! |
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