Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | Treadway | 55559 | ||
Getting Jehovah's Witnesses to understand the "Trinity": There should be no problems understanding the Trinity 1. Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten -- just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded ( before he existed,) but he is of the same age of the other two. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, the above is paraphrasing, of course. Is the summation correct? But let me restate in other ways: So, the Father is God, and the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God, and these three Gods make one God.? Perhaps it is better understood mathematically? a) Addition: two plus one and you have one. Each one is equal to himself and to the other two. b) Multiplication: one X one equals three, and three X one equals one. c) Subtraction: and if we take two from three, three are left. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But maybe it’s not as clear as it could be. Let’s just look at the official creed: “One is the person of the Father; another is the person of the Son, and another is the person of the Holy Ghost. Now the Godhead of the Father, and the Godhead of the Son, and the Godhead of the Holy Ghost is all one.” (Note: everyone knows what a “Godhead” is, so no need to explain it.) “All three are in glory equal, and in majesty coeternal. The Father is untreated, the Son is untreated, the Holy Ghost is untreated.” “The Father is incomprehensible, the Son is incomprehensible, the Holy Ghost is incomprehensible.” (Maybe this is the reason we know so much about the whole thing after 2000 years?) “Now, the Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Ghost is eternal, but yet there are not three eternals, only one eternal. Also, there are not three untreated, nor three incomprehensible but only one untreated, only one incomprehensible.” “In the same vein, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, and the Holy Ghost is almighty. Yet there are not three almighties, only one Almighty. So, the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Ghost is God, and yet there are not three Gods, but just one God.” The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Ghost is Lord, yet there are not three Lords, but only one Lord. It is forbidden to think or say that there are three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of no one, not created or begotten. The Son is from the Father alone, not made or created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is from the Father and the Son, not made nor begotten, but proceeding Let’s see if I can sum it all up: In this Trinity there is nothing before or afterward, nothing greater or less, but the whole three persons are co-eternal with one another, and co-equal, so that in all things the unity is to be worshiped in Trinity, and the Trinity worshiped in unity. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- And for everlasting Salvation: Now I have to believe AND confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and he is both God and man. I must believe that Jesus is “of the substance of his Father begotten before the world began.” And not only that, I must then believe that Jesus is the substance of his mother (this one’s easy) born into the world as Perfect God and Perfect man, and “the rational soul in human flesh, subsisting equal to the Father according to his Godhead (Godhead, again), but less than the Father according to his manhood, who being both God and man is not two but one, one not by conversion of God into flesh, but by the taking of the manhood into God.” I must believe all this in order to be have Everlasting Salvation. “. It must be believed by the saved person that One altogether, not by a confusion of substance by unity of person, for as the rational soul and the flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ, who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead, ascended into heaven, where he sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty, and He shall come to Judge the living and the dead. And there you have it! Any Questions? Treadway...good thoughts....:) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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2 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | cthetruelight | 55656 | ||
The subject of the Godhead is a very difficult and delicate mystery of the Bible. For one, the person you working with must come into the knowledge that Jesus is God's Son in the flesh. If an individual can not accept that statement you will have trouble convincing them. First, the problem is with the word Trinity being used. It is not found in the Bible but the word Godhead is. People do not want to accept Trinity because The Roman Catholic Church created the canon of Christian scripture at the Council of Nicea at the same time that they determined the doctrine of Trinity through the assassination of a few of the voting bishops, by one vote. This is the true origin of the word Trinity. The problem is that we are are trying to understand a divine mystery with human understanding, which will not work. The Catholic Church uses the word persons, well is God really three distinct persons. Even Jesus said in the Gospel of St. John, I and the Father am 1. The problem is that people in their minds try to separate them as actual persons and it is impossible. Please do not take this the wrong way, but when I searched this out I was overwhelmed. The Bible speaks of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as different manifestations, roles, modes, titles, attributes, relationships to man, or functions of the one God, but it does not refer to Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as three persons, personalities, wills, minds, or Gods. If you can lead the person to search out the role of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost, they will begin to recognize that all three are one. Jesus said I have come to do the will of the one who sent me and Jesus also told His disciples that the Father would sent the Comforter which was the Holy Ghost. Jesus and the Holy Ghost was sent from the Father, which reveals to us that these are ways the God Almighty chose to manifest Himself unto man. God Bless | ||||||
3 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | srbaegon | 55658 | ||
Hello cthetruelight You are correct that the Godhead is a delicate mystery. That's why we reject the heresy of modalism. You use tired and/or invalid arguments from church history to form an ad hominem attack which has nothing to do with the truth of the Trinity. If you want to learn, rather than attack, do a Quick Search on the Trinity, and read the posts. Steve |
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4 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | cthetruelight | 55664 | ||
Answer these questions for me? Three separate Gods/Persons is tritheism which is Mormon theology not Christians theology. The Trinity doctrine did not emerge until fourth century. Neither Jesus nor the apostles ever taught it. If the Father and Son are coequal Persons, why did Jesus have this attitude in Phil 2:6-11? Are there three Spirits in a Christian heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (Jn. 14:17; 23; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:4). These are just a few questions I present. There is no reason to attack my theological position which I may add is biblically base. You may feel that they are weak or invalid but is true and others can research what I stated. So I present to others this wealth of information for them to seek out themselves. You made it clear that Jehovah Witness were in error because a few men in Watchtower came up with their theology and it is correct beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Catholic Church came up with the theolgy of Trinitarianism (a few good bishops, men if you will). Yes, I am a learner and as I indicted in my prior post that I seek out the truth. I do not rely on others to tell me everything, instead I search the word of God and things that are represented must be biblically sound. I am not attacking anyone and I ask forgiveness if you think I did, but I will not apologize for God's Word because it speaks for itself. I do not strive with my brothers and sisters in the Lord, because the Apostle Paul told about a more excellent way and therefore I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord! Despite our theological positions we all are the Body of Christ. |
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5 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | srbaegon | 55670 | ||
Hello cthetruelight Three separate Gods is tritheism. No question. "The Trinity doctrine did not emerge until fourth century. Neither Jesus nor the apostles ever taught it." The Trinity doctrine was not put down on paper as a systematized doctrine until the 4th century. It can be found in the Old Testament. "If the Father and Son are coequal Persons, why did Jesus have this attitude in Phil 2:6-11?" Because He desired to do the Father's will. See especially John's gospel. "Are there three Spirits in a Christian heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (Jn. 14:17; 23; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:4)." You just gave a nice proof of the Trinity--three, yet one. "You made it clear that Jehovah Witness were in error because a few men in Watchtower came up with their theology..." No, others have. But I agree with them. "...and it is correct beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Catholic Church came up with the theolgy of Trinitarianism (a few good bishops, men if you will)." Excuse me, but you said the Roman Catholic Church which wasn't yet in existence as a separate entity. Steve |
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6 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | cthetruelight | 55675 | ||
From the death of Origen to the accession of Constantine was a period of tremendous growth for the church, as well as a period of great persecution under Diocletian, Galerius and Maximin from 303 to 312. In 313, a year after the accession of Constantine, Christianity, such as it was, became the state religion. In 313, Constantine promulgated the Edict of Milan forbidding persecution of monotheistic religions in the Roman Empire. On the surface this would appear to have been a great boon to the church. But as we shall see, although the edict allowed Christians to practice their faith openly, the politics of the Roman Empire slowly assimilated themselves into the church and thus was formulated a totalitarian religion known as Roman Catholicism. So it is evident that you have not done research on the Catholic Church and therefore this will be my last post. First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, was held in 325. As early as 320 or 321 St. Alexander, Bishop of Alexandria, convoked a council at Alexandria at which more than one hundred bishops from Egypt and Libya . The latter continued to officiate in his church and to recruit followers of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church had many councils so maybe this info will clear up what I stated before. Do research on The History on the Catholic Church and while you are at it look up Constantine, Alexander the Great and (Charlemagne from 8th Century). I also will add that the Council of Nicea later became the Nicene Creed that many church follow today which is not a bad thing. Just have a clear understanding about the trinity and it's origin. This is all I wanted to present and my prayer is that God will bring you into the full knowledge of the truth and that your theological understanding will be broaden and not one sided. |
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7 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | srbaegon | 55684 | ||
Hello cthetruelight Plagiarism is unbecoming. I found your text on the internet. You should cite your sources. I don't need my understanding of the person and work of Christ and his relationship to the Father and Holy Spirit broadened. When one knows the truth, there's no sense in continuing to look. Steve |
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8 | Jehovah's Witnesses in a Nutshell | Rom 3:4 | cthetruelight | 55687 | ||
That is were you are wrong.. I just went to other sources to prove my point and so therefore you are wrong. Like I said others can decide for themselves. It is not called plagiarism because I am not claiming the information as my own, but instead my dear brother is it research and anyone is free to look it up for themselves. I know now you are reading and thinking sincerely about some of the things I said. Doing research and plagarism is two entirely different things. | ||||||