Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119026 | ||
This is very interesting Steve. Thanks for your post. Agree with you that Christ died so that All might be redeemed, though we know not all will take the offer. 1 Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. If Christ desires that all men be saved, means He makes the offer of salvation to all. If he did not make the offer to one person, then His desire would be NOT to save that person. John 5:24 you quoted. This verse speaks of ones who do hear the gospel. It says nothing about those that have not heard it, so we cannot conclude that those that do not hear will not be saved. It defies logic to do so. For the following verse, text is in small letters my COMMENT INSERTED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. John 6:44-45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHETHER ONE HAS THE GOSPEL TO READ OR NOT. IT IS NOT THE GOSPEL THAT DRAWS ONE TO CHRIST, BUT THE FATHER IN HEAVEN HIMSELF. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets'and they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. THE WRITTEN GOSPEL IS NOT MENTIONED AS BEING REQUIRED. WE HAVE TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER AND LEARN FROM HIM TO COME TO CHRIST. HAVING THE GOSPEL BUT NOT BEING DRAWN IS OF NO USE TO US. Your comment: "The only way to Jesus is by hearing the word of God."cannot be found, at least that I know of, in the gospel. The only way to Christ is to be drawn by the FATHER is. In His drawing people to Christ, I do not see how that can be limited to the gospel, since many never came in contact with it. The great commission as it is called. Mark 16:15. The statement "go into all the world" is addressed to the 11 disciples. We assume they did what they were told. Many assume that that means all believers are to do this, which is not so, because it contradicts this passage. James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment. The job it is of an angel in the end times to preach the gospel to all who dwell on the earth. It is therefore not possible for man to accomplish this in the first place at this point in time. If it were the task of men to do it, then why send an angel as well? Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; This preaching of the gospel seems to leave no one out. All hear it. even so not all heed it at this time. It is probably done as a last chance for all to change their minds and accept Christ. Lastly: Your comment we have NO biblical examples of any person being saved without God's special revelation of Himself to that person. Logically: No bear in your house does not mean they do not exist. You are perfectly correct however. The FATHER Himself draws us to Christ(We all get a personal revelation from the Father) but again that cannot be limited to the written gospel, since many thoughout history have had no access to it. We have to be careful what we teach, because teaching it wrong is not a good idea. The stricter judgement of teachers probably has something to do with teaching wrong things and thereby leading others astray, or harming them in some way. This is not to say that bible study and discussion is not good, quite the contrary, we learn lots from it. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
||||||
2 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | srbaegon | 119066 | ||
Hello Henry and Emmy, "1 Tim 2:3-4...If Christ desires that all men be saved, means He makes the offer of salvation to all. If he did not make the offer to one person, then His desire would be NOT to save that person." This is pulling the passage out of its context. 1 Tim 2:1-7 speaks of who we are to pray for. If the "all" of verses 3-4 means absolutely everyone, then so does "all" of verse 1. And if we don't pray for every single individual in the world, then we have sinned in falling short. The truth is that Paul does not want us to exclude anyone, so he uses the phrasing to tell Timothy that we are to pray for all in authority and for those with whom we come in contact. Concerning John 6:44-45 you said: "THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHETHER ONE HAS THE GOSPEL TO READ OR NOT. IT IS NOT THE GOSPEL THAT DRAWS ONE TO CHRIST, BUT THE FATHER IN HEAVEN HIMSELF. THE WRITTEN GOSPEL IS NOT MENTIONED AS BEING REQUIRED." Of course it's mentioned. It's mentioned in verse 45 that one has to hear and learn from the Father. This is done via Scripture. You won't find in the NT an occasion when the Father spoke audibly to anyone, much less save them by this method. There is no verse that says one can be saved apart from hearing the gospel. It does not exist except in your Bible--just in your mind. Concerning Mark 16:15: "The statement 'go into all the world' is addressed to the 11 disciples. We assume they did what they were told. Many assume that that means all believers are to do this, which is not so, because it contradicts this passage." So whatever was told to the apostles by God, we don't have to worry about. I guess I don't have to worry about anything the NT says, because what was written was given to them by God. Thanks for letting me off the hook! Steve |
||||||
3 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119235 | ||
Hi Steve: 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. I agree that this passage talks about praying. I understand it to say that this kind of praying is good and acceptable to God our Saviour who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I do not follow your reasoning when you say I took this out of context. This passage says two things. 1. Praying in the way indicated is good and acceptable to Christ 2. Christ desires that all men come to accept the offer of salvation , not just Kings and rulers. Are you saying the second statement is FALSE? If so why ? Can you find a passage that says Jesus intended to offer salvation to some but not others? In both verse 1 and 3,4 it says "all men". To me means all men, not just kings and rulers. Kings and rulers are mentioned in particular because we have a real interest in them doing things right for us to have a peaceful life. It says to me pray for all men, but especially for rulers. Here are some different translations of the same verses: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1The first thing I want you to do is pray. Pray every way you know how, for everyone you know. 2Pray especially for rulers and their governments to rule well so we can be quietly about our business of living simply, in humble contemplation. 3This is the way our Savior God wants us to live. 4He wants not only us but everyone saved, you know, everyone to get to know the truth we've learned MSG ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. As you make your requests, plead for God's mercy upon them, and give thanks. 2Pray this way for kings and all others who are in authority, so that we can live in peace and quietness, in godliness and dignity. 3This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4for he wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. ---------- John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. You ADD that this hearing and learning comes only through the gospel. The verse does not actually say what you added. My test: What does a verse say and what does a verse not say. You are limiting the Father from all other forms of communication which are listed as being used in the past. Does it actually say that the gospel is the only way left ? If so where ? Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
||||||
4 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | srbaegon | 119259 | ||
Hello Henry and Emmy, I agree with what you've stated about 1 Tim 2:1-4. You asked: "Can you find a passage that says Jesus intended to offer salvation to some but not others?" No, because common sense will tell you that the offer cannot possibly evangelize every person who ever lived since Christ died. It's a physical impossibility. You said: "You ADD that this hearing and learning comes only through the gospel. The verse does not actually say what you added." Firstly, I said it comes through Scripture, (i.e. God's special revelation of Himself). Secondly, it does state what I "added." How does one hear and learn from the Father? There are no NT examples of God revealing Himself so that they would be saved, therefore it must be by the word of God which is exactly what is stated in Rom 10:17. Consider-- John 3:36 (ESV) Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. How can one believe and obey without knowing who He is? Ephes. 1:13-14 (ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit How does one receive the Holy Spirit? By hearing and believing the gospel. Last thing. Your whole line of reasoning makes a mockery of what Paul or anyone has endured to spread the gospel. If it wasn't necessary, there was no point to it. Steve |
||||||