Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | srbaegon | 118986 | ||
Hello Henry and Emmy, I agree that creation gives the knowledge of God and that rejecting that revelation dooms a person. No question there. You said: "It says HE died once for ALL, so there is no exception." On the surface I agree (see 1 Peter 3:18). You also said: "whose offer of salvation is open to ALL." What does Scripture say? John 5:24 (ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 6:44-45 (ESV) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. [45] It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. The only way to the Jesus is by HEARING the word of God. If it was not so, the Great Commission becomes only a very bad joke. Lastly, we have NO Biblical examples of any person being saved without God's special revelation of Himself to that person. Steve |
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2 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119026 | ||
This is very interesting Steve. Thanks for your post. Agree with you that Christ died so that All might be redeemed, though we know not all will take the offer. 1 Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. If Christ desires that all men be saved, means He makes the offer of salvation to all. If he did not make the offer to one person, then His desire would be NOT to save that person. John 5:24 you quoted. This verse speaks of ones who do hear the gospel. It says nothing about those that have not heard it, so we cannot conclude that those that do not hear will not be saved. It defies logic to do so. For the following verse, text is in small letters my COMMENT INSERTED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. John 6:44-45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHETHER ONE HAS THE GOSPEL TO READ OR NOT. IT IS NOT THE GOSPEL THAT DRAWS ONE TO CHRIST, BUT THE FATHER IN HEAVEN HIMSELF. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets'and they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. THE WRITTEN GOSPEL IS NOT MENTIONED AS BEING REQUIRED. WE HAVE TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER AND LEARN FROM HIM TO COME TO CHRIST. HAVING THE GOSPEL BUT NOT BEING DRAWN IS OF NO USE TO US. Your comment: "The only way to Jesus is by hearing the word of God."cannot be found, at least that I know of, in the gospel. The only way to Christ is to be drawn by the FATHER is. In His drawing people to Christ, I do not see how that can be limited to the gospel, since many never came in contact with it. The great commission as it is called. Mark 16:15. The statement "go into all the world" is addressed to the 11 disciples. We assume they did what they were told. Many assume that that means all believers are to do this, which is not so, because it contradicts this passage. James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment. The job it is of an angel in the end times to preach the gospel to all who dwell on the earth. It is therefore not possible for man to accomplish this in the first place at this point in time. If it were the task of men to do it, then why send an angel as well? Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; This preaching of the gospel seems to leave no one out. All hear it. even so not all heed it at this time. It is probably done as a last chance for all to change their minds and accept Christ. Lastly: Your comment we have NO biblical examples of any person being saved without God's special revelation of Himself to that person. Logically: No bear in your house does not mean they do not exist. You are perfectly correct however. The FATHER Himself draws us to Christ(We all get a personal revelation from the Father) but again that cannot be limited to the written gospel, since many thoughout history have had no access to it. We have to be careful what we teach, because teaching it wrong is not a good idea. The stricter judgement of teachers probably has something to do with teaching wrong things and thereby leading others astray, or harming them in some way. This is not to say that bible study and discussion is not good, quite the contrary, we learn lots from it. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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3 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Hank | 119032 | ||
Henry and Emmy: It's been a long and busy day for me and my ancient bones are tired; therefore, I won't think of attempting the arduous task of doing a line by line commentary on your post. But may I cordially remind you that God is sovereign and He therefore is not governed by human logic. And I will add but one additional comment. It seems to my mind that you are straining terribly hard to find Scripture to support an insupportable premise; namely, that one can be saved without a saving knowledge of Christ that can be obtained only through the gospel of Christ which is revealed in the written word of God. --Hank | ||||||
4 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119087 | ||
Hi Hank: Thanks for the reply. No need to have a yes vs no session. I comment to things I see written on the forum to encourage people on it to think logically and read into any passsage only what it says. I post only those things I honestly believe are true,and logical. When I look at a passage, I test its meaning this way. 1. What does it actually say? Don't omit any thought 2. What does it not say ? Do not add anything it does not say. 3. Does the meaning I think it has, agree with all else I know about scriptures. If there is a contradiction between any two verses, then we try to change our thinking to resolve the conflict. This is how you can easily get us to change our thinking about any passage. Point out how one thought I post contradicts another thought I post. If a thought you hold contradicts thoughts I hold, then change in my thinking is not so easy to make. I thinks works the same for you and others. The challenge for us then, is to read all passages accurately.without adding or taking anything away,and having its meaning agree with other related thoughts in our belief. If you want to point out where my thinking is wrong on being able to be saved without having access to the gospel for instance do this. Send me the verse that you think states my thought is wrong. I'll send you my interpretration. You look for a contradiction between the verse in question and anything I have said so far on the forum. If you find a contradiction in my statements, I'll thank you for pointing it out and try to find out what is wrong with my thinking. We are into bible study for one purpose. To find out the truth about what the bible says. Alternatively you could post a passage that you think states one can only be saved if one has contact with the gospel Or that if they donot have the gospel they cannot be saved. Sincerely Henry and Emmy. |
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5 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Hank | 119094 | ||
Henry and Emmy: To the best of my ability to decipher your post, what you have said using no economy of words is that you invite others to point out how one of your opinions may have contradicated another one. Personally, I'm more interested in having others point out to me how one of my opinions may have contradicted Scripture. Have a good Wednesday. --Hank | ||||||
6 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119232 | ||
Hi Hank This is the point I tried to make in the previous post. If I have the scriptures interpreted incorrectly, the best way for you to convince me of that fact is to point out that two interpretations I hold contradict each other. I hold that if two interpretations conflict, then at least one of them is wrong if not both, and I have to rethink the interpretations I hold. In fact discovering a contradiction within ones interpretations can lead to real learning. If you were trying to convince me that one has to have the gospel in order to be saved Try to find a contradiction within any statements I made on the topic. I will make some statements here that I consider to be TRUE. 1. Jesus died so that all sinners would have a chance at salvation. 2. No one can be saved except through Christ. 3. Jesus desires that all turn from sin and repent so they can be saved. 4. Not all have been aware of the gospel in their lifetime. If interested and you believe one of these statements is FALSE can you post a passage that you think supports that it is FALSE. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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7 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Hank | 119234 | ||
Henry and Emmy: Why do you place the burden on me to provide Scripture to prove your four statements false when you have not provided Scripture to prove them true? --Hank | ||||||
8 | What does Romans 2:12 mean? | Rom 1:19 | Emmy | 119238 | ||
Hi Hank: Your question: Why do you place the burden on me to provide Scripture to prove your four statements false when you have not provided Scripture to prove them true? If I am wrong, I desire to know. You can help by trying to point out contradictions in my thinking. The statements: 1. Jesus died so that all sinners would have a chance at salvation. 2. No one can be saved except through Christ. 3. Jesus desires that all turn from sin and repent so they can be saved. 4. Not all have been aware of the gospel in their lifetime. My reasons for thinking this: Statement 3: 1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,2 for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Verse 4 says Christ desires that all men come to salvation. Statement 2: Acts4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." Statement 1: The only way to be saved is through His death and resurrection, therefore He died So all men would have a chance at salvation. Statement 4 is not in the gospel Here is why I believe it to be true. The scriptures were not written till well after a generation after the time of Christ. Therefore many died without having seen or heard the gospel Paul got as far as Rome, but the church was mostly in hiding, so very few in Rome actually Got to hear him, let alone those in Norway, and Russia. His letter got to the churches he wrote, but most others in these communities did not read or hear them. Can one argue that the gospel got to China, Australia, Mexico, Canada, South and Central America within the 1st say 100 years after Christ ? During exploration of the New World, is there record that one nation or tribe in any land were talking about, or had heard about the story of Christ being crucified so that they could be saved ? It seems that if the Europeans had found a tribe in the New World teaching Christ, then that would have been noticed and recorded In the excavations of cities or villages of cultures in the new world, has any one ever found any hint that these cultures made religious relics as evidence of Christ crucified ? Just because there is no evidence, does not constitute proof that it did not exist logically speaking, but, let me ask you, do you think the gospel existed in America before 1492 when Columbus came? If these statements are all true: 1. Christ died so all have a chance at redemption 2. Christ desires that all come to salvation 3. The only way to salvation is through Christ 4. Not all heard the gospel. Then the only conclusion that can be drawn is Christ desires to and can save those who have never heard the gospel. Can you point out a problem with either the scriptures quoted, or the logical truth of the statements made. Sincerely Henry and Emmy |
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