Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21827 | ||
You must be new here if you haven't seen my views on that. :) This topic has been covered in a major way on this forum. I would type "Christ elect" in the Quick Search window to read and add to those discussions. --Joe! |
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2 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | FlyFisher | 22213 | ||
Thank you Joe and may God bless you. I read all of it. It raised some questions and some thoughts, but all and all I think we think along the same lines. This might be long so please bear with me. Eph 1:4,5 "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blamless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to to kind intention of His will" NASB. Is that US individually our US as a group as in the church? 2 Thes 2:13 "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethern beloved of the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the santification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." NASB This brings me to some of my questions. The beginning of our creation here in the world as we know it or THE beginning? Rev 13:8 seems to make it clear that it was from THE begining. To my thimking that would mean on e of three things. A. God looked in to the future (as we understand future) and made the decision who's name to write down. B. God loved the elect while they were as yet still nothingness, before they existed. C. We existed from the foundation of the world. "In the beginning was the Word and the elect, the Word and the elect were with God, and the Word became man as the elect had to (though the Word did not have to)." I guess we would have just hung out with God until it was our time to be born. This is my theory, let me know what you think. We know that there are, what I'll call the unelect, who are destined to be destroyed for God's purposes; Pharaoh, Judas, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, ect.. Then there are the elect, of which I think there might be two types. Some that were foreknew and their names were written in the book of life; Moses, Abraham, Jacob, John (the baptist), Wesly, Knox, Calvin, Graham, ect.. These gaints of the faith and earth changers had their names written in the book fram the foundation of the world. This is why Zacharias was told to name his son John (Luke 1:13), because that name was all ready written in the book. Then there are the rest of us. When we accept His free gift of salvation our names are written in the book. (Another theroy might be that everyone is written in the book and then some taken out. Ex32:32,33; Ps 69:28). This would help explain Luke 15:7 "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over nintey-nine rightous persons who need no repentence." NASB. If just being elect and having your name written in the book were a done deal for salvation, why all the rejoicing? As I write this I'm thinking maybe we are all written in the book, our repentence keep our name from being blotted out and that is why all the rejoicing takes place. For Paul belied all Israel were of the elect and that all would be saved, Rom 11:25-32. This might also put 1 Cor 10;32,33 in context. If you find major holes in this theroy, Please point them out. You said: 'He obviously died for only a select few. In Romans 9, Paul calls them "the elect." If God HAD died for everybody, then everybody would be saved. Do you really think that people whom God has decided to save can resist His will? Do you put mere man on the same level as God?' My reply; As to the second question; NO of course not. |
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3 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | FlyFisher | 22220 | ||
As to the first question; My over all understanding of the "good news" would be as follows. Let's say you are Joe Lost, and you find yourself a slave of Mr. D. Evil. Mr. Evil can sometimes fun to be with (wine, women, and song) but he does make you carry around a heavyload, a load that keeps getting heavier. One day while you are toiling under your heavy load a Mr. H. Oly Spirit comes up to you and says "Hello there Mr. Lost, You look tired and that load looks heavy. You don't have to live like this you know. There is a man who has put up the money to redeem you. All you have to do is believe in the things he tells you, turn your back on this life, and do as he tells you. Just go on down this road, as you come to the light, open the door and listen to what he has to say." So you walk on down the path 'till you see a light, it is on a large building that looks like a big store house. On the outside you notice a sign that reads 'Yeshua Trust and Bridge Building Globle', so you open the door and are met there by a man. This man looks like he has done a lot of suffering in his time, in fact, he looks like he has been through even more than you have. He introduces himself as Mr. J.C. Christ, he asks you to sit down in this plain and humble looking reception areaso he may speak with you awhile. He says "Yes Joe, I know why you are here and what Mr. Spirit has told you is true. I have an account set up in your name that can take care of your debts. All of your past, present, and future debts. All you need do is take the key (a key named faith) that my other partner, not Mr. Spirit but my other partner Mr. F. Ather has provided. Take that key, believe in me and what you have been told, and follow me." Now you have to decide if you are going to believe in man, this J.C. Lord, is telling you the truth or not. Do you believe him or not? He looks so poor, so plain, he doesn't look like a man that has the resources to do all he says he can do. About this time Mr. Spirit walks in and says "So, what do you think? He really can do all he says he can do, and even more. He is telling you the truth. I know it must sound foolish to you but it is all true. Come, believe in him and walk with us." From here the path you walk is your choice. Have your debts paid by someone else or pay them yourself. If you choose to walk away, Mr.Lord's account is still there in your name, but remains unclaimed, for you chose not to use it. 2 Pet 3:9 tells us "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentence." NASB I relize this doen't say 'God's will', but isn't His "wish" about the same thing. Can He wish for things outside of His will? Regarding the 'inclinations of man's heart toward evil'. Just because you are inclined to do something does not mean you always do it. True? As you know, God views things in black and white, "He who is not with Me is against Me;" Mat 12:30a, Luke11:23 (NASB). Therefore, in His eyes anything that is not from Him is evil. I believe man does not share all of God's ideas on what is evil, man sees a gray area that is not truly there. If man always did the evil that is in his heart, this world would be even worst than it is. This condition (leaning) does not preclude good from influencing us or our thoughts. Even those of us with regenerated hearts can not say that our thoughts are His thoughts; nor can we say that our Ways are His ways. The Holy Ghost can impress good upon a heart and allow it to either be led to the light, or flee to the believed safty of the darkness it has always known. You said: The problem for the unsaved is that they do not have a desire for Christ." My reply: Is it that they don't have a desire for Christ or that they don't realize the the desire they have, is for Christ. It seems to me that all men (gereral usage not gender usage)have a desire for something better. They feel there is something out there better and more fulfilling than what they have now, and desire to have it. They just are still blind. Seek and ye shall find, Knock and it will be opened. Two more things, then I'll let you go. You said you wouldn't talk about backsliders because the word backslider was in the bible. Do you talk about the rapture of the church? You also said that you don't base your faith on songs. How about the book of Psalms? (Ha, got you!) In closing let me say that discussing this with you has been a blessing. It has taught me some things, made me think on some things, and reafirmed some things. I hope to go further with you. Thank you from my heart. 'Till I see you on the other side where all of our questions will be answered. Maranatha! Larry |
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4 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | kalos | 22224 | ||
I'm not taking sides in this debate. I merely present a technical point found in the Bible. You write: "You said you wouldn't talk about backsliders because the word backslider was in the bible. " Actually some form of the the word backslide (e.g. backslider or backslidden) most certainly does appear in the Bible -- in the Old Testament. However, you will not find any form of the word backslide in the NT. The concept of backsliding may or may not be found in the NT. However, the word itself is NOT in the NT. |
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5 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | FlyFisher | 23038 | ||
I whole agree. It is tayght in the NT the same way the rapture of the is taught. Maranatha! Larry |
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