Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | disciplerami | 77269 | ||
John, The statement "God has decreed that they shall be saved" is wrong. What God has decreed is that everyone who conforms to His divine will shall be saved. Where you say, "Those who have not recieved the Spirit of God, are without the means of understanding those things that God has freely given" is incorrect. Paul says in Romans 1:18ff that even the lost sinner is guilting, because they understood and suppressed the truth. "They consider them foolishness". That right, they do. But what is the remedy? Preach the Gospel to them, appeal to them the Christian evidences, challenge their thinking, their mindset. They can come to their senses (like the prodigal) and be saved. The nature they are born with dose not prohibit them from seeing the truth. We just need to preach and teach it to them. Everyone may come to Christ and drink of the water of life. Jesus promise of "whosoever will" refutes the idea that only some are saved by Sovereign decree. Again, it is God's sovereign decree that His Son taste death for ALL (Heb 2:9), because God loves ALL (Jn 3:16) and desires that ALL be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:5). That's God's decree. The lost man can decide discern spiritually, and the saved man can decide to discern things carnally. Have a good day. Disciplerami |
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2 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | John Reformed | 77370 | ||
Dear Discilerami, I suggest you use the search function to learn of the scriptual defense of the doctrine of "unconditional election". You wrote: (in reponse to my insistance that the natural man considers the gospel foolishness) "That right, they do. But what is the remedy? Preach the Gospel to them, appeal to them the Christian evidences, challenge their thinking, their mindset. They can come to their senses (like the prodigal) and be saved. The nature they are born with dose not prohibit them from seeing the truth. We just need to preach and teach it to them." The following is why I do not accept your reponse: The great evangelist Paul, knew what he was talking about when he wrote in 1 cor1:18 "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." Our reasoned arguements, no matter how well presented in our proclamation of the gospel, remain foolishness to those who are perishing. Those who are pesuaded by human wisdom and frothy emotional appeal, will wither away for they have no "root" in them. God alone has the power to save, and He does so by His Spirit for those who are being saved. In other words, our salvation was a miraculous work of God, not a result of a decision on the part of man. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. I could supply you with a wealth of proof from God's Holy Word, but time does not permit and I must now earn my daily bread. :-) John Reformed |
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3 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | disciplerami | 77415 | ||
Hello John, I certainly believe what Paul wrote, and I as well, glory in the wisdom of God. Paul said, "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." We both believe the truthfulness of this statement, but difference we have is how did those "saved" get into the saved column; because they too were at one time in the "perishing" column. The "root" you mention is the result of the individual, though perishing he may be, humbly receiving the "word implanted" (Jas 1) which is able to make him "wise unto salvation." The "root" that withers is the result of other factors. As the parable of the soils indicates, the plant dies because of concern over riches or because of persecutions. Christians endure the same challenges that others do, plus some, and it is incumbent upon each to "lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles" and "run with endurance the race that is set" before them (Heb 12:1ff). Jesus endured the things He endures so that "we might not grow weary and lose heart." Implied in this statement of the Hebrew writer is that we just might grow weary and lose heart. I do not believe that the soveignty of God denies the person the ability to accept or reject spiritual truths. Thanks very much, Disciplerami. |
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4 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | John Reformed | 77616 | ||
Dear Disciplerami, You wrote: Paul said, "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."...We both believe the truthfulness of this statement, but difference we have is how did those "saved" get into the saved column; because they too were at one time in the "perishing" column." -------------------------------------------------- The problem, as I see it (for those who deny original sin and God's freedom to save only those which, for His own good pleasure, He has chosen to save), is that sinners who desire Christ have something that those who do not desire Him, but reject the gospel lack. Namely, the desire to turn from sin and seek that righteousness that is found in Christ alone. Sure, the world is filled with untold millions of guilt ridden people who desire to be set free from their bondage. But, rather than admit their hopeless condition, they turn to psychiatry, 12 step programs, pagan religions etc. Anything is preferrable to surrendering to their Creator, even though they know the truth through natural revelation i.e., the witness of creation itself! They refuse to surrender their immagined autonomy and will go to any legnth to banish the very thought of Him from their minds. Even to the point of murdering His prophets, His people and His Son. For many christians the proclamation of the gospel, appealing to reason and emotion, and the witness of personal godliness in our own walk is the answer to "how to win souls for Christ". Don't get me wrong! I am all for doing just that, as often and for as many lost sinners as God places in our path. Where I differ is on the basis by which these "methods" bear fruit unto salvation. I reject the notion that it is the "free will" of the natural (unregenerate) man that makes the differece between eternal life an eternal death. John 3:16 states "whosoever" believes. My question is, where does the desire to place one's faith in Christ come from? If two people hear the same gospel and one desires to believe it but the other lacks that desire, considering the gospel as foolishness, where did the desire in the "willing" one come from? I say the bible teaches that this desire is by way of God's grace. Under your system, Christ's death on the cross did not accomplish salvation for anyone, it merely made salvation a possiblity. Those who are saved save themselves by making the right choice. Only those who have a spark of decency in their hearts or enough common sense to recognize their peril will opt for Christ. It is as if God has thrown a life-preserver to the human race, but only the smart ones who are good swimmers have the desire and ability to reach it. The rest either fail to see their need of rescue, or do not have the capacity to recognize the virtue of the Life -preserver as the means of preventing them from sinking to the bottom of the sea! Could this have been God's plan, to make salvation possible for all but assured to none? Is 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; -------------------------------------------------- You stated: "I do not believe that the soveignty of God denies the person the ability to accept or reject spiritual truths." The fact that you deny that the sin of Adam brought spiritual death to all his seed, is the reason why you cannot understand nor believe the plain teaching of 1 Cor 2:14. John Reformed |
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5 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | disciplerami | 77631 | ||
Greetings John Reformed, I will grant that you see our sides fairly clearly. I do think the Gospel is a lifepreserver that God has tossed out to all men. However, the analogy isn't exact because what is the other alternative for the drowning person? The way you have depicted it, everyone would be pulling on the preserver. But everyone doesn't take it because there is an alternative. The man who is drowning in sin thinks something else looks pretty good and rejects God's help. If there were no alternatives, everyone would take the God's salvation. When Paul talks about the war in his own body, the war between body and soul, he speaks of the challenge that we each face (Romans 7). The bad news for man is that he is in a body that needs but also wants. He needs food, but he wants too much. Paul said, "who will set me free...?" Romans 8 gives the answer. God has done through Christ what the Law could not do. The righteous requirement of the Law was perfection and God through faith [the kind of faith demonstrated in Paul's words of chapter 7, 'the thing I do, I hate; that which I want to do, I do not do'] is able to make sinful men perfect. He goes on to say that the mind set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the spirit is life. Here is where we can't agree. HOW is the mind set on the flesh or on the things of the Spirit? You see the total depraved nature of man and insist it is God who does the ‘setting'; I see God appealing to man with ample evidence so that even the most hardened can be made soft. Both ways get people saved, but which way is right? Both ways get people saved by the grace of God, but which way jives with the rest of the Scripture? Why does the Holy Spirit fill Scripture with the conditional statements; why the imperatives: the 'thou shalts', the must, the demands; why the warnings of hell and hopes of heaven; why the vocative laments: the hopes and wishes and desires. Why does God speak to man at all in Scripture if the facts can't phase the hardened sinner? From your perspective/belief, you must grant that no one would ever be saved, no one would ever grab the 'preserver', no one would ever 'set his mind on the Spirit' unless God personally put it in their hand and plucked them to safety. Nothing, not the truth of Scripture, not the glories of heaven get even a spark from the depraved man. In my way of thinking, these are very powerful messages, ones that can overcome the fog of error and lies that surround the sinner. I see the difficulty you have in accepting a Gospel that is made available to all, but assured only to those smart enough to take it. It's a risk. But God takes risk. When God made a Garden with choice, God took a risk. It was an experiment, if you will, to see if man would choose good over evil. Man with freewill chose to disobey God: that was part of the nature given him. When God flooded the earth, it was a risk. He didn't make or spark or place desire in Noah to obey and build the ark. That was Noah; he was righteous and blameless. God found the only eight people on earth who still loved Him and so God provided them a way of salvation. The sovereignty of God provided that if Noah built an ark, man would be saved. Noah didn't build the ark because of an ALL CONTROLLING SOVEREIGN GOD put it in him. Think about it, we don't marvel at the faith of Noah because God made Noah build the ark, we marvel because WHAT a FAITH he had! continued... |
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6 | Is hearing necessary for salvation? | Rom 10:17 | John Reformed | 77643 | ||
Dear Discilerami, As I am at work, I must be brief and, for now, can address your first Q only. You asked:I do think the Gospel is a lifepreserver that God has tossed out to all men. However, the analogy isn't exact because what is the other alternative for the drowning person?" The greatest flaw in my analogy was the depiction of all of mankind struggling in the sea. To present a truly scriptural analogy, I need to present an entirely new scenario: Rather than struggling on the surface of the sea, mankind (dead in trespasses and sins) are stone cold dead and are lying on the ocean floor. God, for no other reason but His good pleasure, sends a diver (the Holy Spirit) to raise these spiritual corpses to life. Once ressurrected from their watery grave, they reach the surface and struggle towards the the Life Saviour, Jesus Christ. They come willingly, realizing that it was the mercy and love of God which saved them. As for the ones God has left at the bottom, they would'nt have it anyother way! They love the muck and mud. But God has shown mercy on those to whom He will have mercy and He hardens those who He will harden. Afterall, He is the Potter and we are the clay. Clay has no rights or claims over it's Creator. This is a hard doctrine to accept. I wrestle with it even as I write these lines. Nevertheless, it is what the Bible teaches and my duty is to subordinate my imperfect reason to His perfect Word. I rest in the knowledge that everything He does is just, and I know that, when in Glory, His justice will be revealed to the saints, and we will rejoice in all that He has done. God Bless, John R. |
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