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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | John Reformed | 61480 | ||
Hello Sir Pent, Well I guess the sovereigty of God is not going to be a popular topic aroud here for awhile. And maybe we never will reach a consensus or even the Truth. But I sure enjoyed the give and take and it did make each of us sharpen our swords did'nt it...Oh well. But we can talk about original sin can't we?... Maybe not because that would inevitably lead to free will and Spiritual death and the basis of our salvation....Yeah, we better not touch that either. Hey I got it lets talk about how it is we both are saved...UhOh! The E word. Better not talk about that either. Dear friend do you see the dillema I face. My sin was I posted too much about the wrong thing and now everybodys leaving the Forum (at least thats what someone said). I'll see if I can come up with something that won't tromp on folks theological toes. I just hope won't be boring and tedious because that might start another stampede out the door. But on the other hand...How about: 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" Man! Is'nt God good!!! John Refo...UhOh! |
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2 | Is God in absolut contrl over all things | Acts 4:24 | Sir Pent | 61495 | ||
A Different View ......................................... There has been a lot of venting since I posted last regarding the futility and devisiveness of C and A debates on this forum. I agree that these debates can be futile and divisive if the people are just covering the same ground repeatedly (quoting the same verses that each side always quotes, for instance). However, I believe that John Reformed and I are actually covering new ground here. I don’t think that there has been another thread that significantly covers whether it is possible for God to be sovereign from an Arminian perspective. I also think that this is one area where it is actually possible to reach consensus. Maybe I’ll be proved wrong, but I’d like to at least give it a try. I have enjoyed the discussion so far, and am up for it if you are John Reformed. You gave 3 reasons why God can’t be sovereign from the Arminian perspective. Let’s look at your points in reverse order. ......................................... You said that Scripture speaks throughout of predestination and fore ordination. I fail to see the relevance. I’ll grant that from your perspective those verses say that God excersizes complete control over the salvation of each individual. However, that doesn’t say anything about whether God would still be in control if He chose not to excersize that control at all times. ......................................... You also said that “If even one atom of matter is free from God's absolute control then chaos could result.” I believe that in one since you are correct. If the universe were completely free from God’s control, you would end up with chaos. Coincidentally (?) in science we learn that is exactly what is happening. It is called entropy, and it is the realization that all things are naturally going from a state of order to a state of disorder (just look at a child’s bedroom). However, I would say that God sustains the universe (biblical idea here), and keeps it from falling apart until He is ready for that to happen. I would also say that it is possible to delegate a limited amount of freedom to subjects without creating utter chaos. ......................................... Finally, you also said, “God is sovereign in a way that no mere creature can be described as sovereign.” I agree that God is sovereign beyond any mere creature, but how does that change anything. In fact, if a mere parent can allow their child to pick which slide to go down in the park without it diminishing the parent’s strenth and ability, then wouldn’t it be logical that God (who has infinately more power) could allow a human to choose whether to love Him or not without it diminishing God’s power or control? |
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