Results 1 - 14 of 14
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | kalos | 133366 | ||
Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? ____________________ 'If you think you're on safe theological ground because of a pet verse, better look twice. Simple prooftexting has its perils.' ____________________ 'Is baptism necessary for salvation? Is it necessary to be water baptized after one's profession of faith before one can receive the gift of forgiveness and new life through regeneration? Or is baptism a proper act of obedience after one becomes a Christian? 'In the first case the order would be faith, then baptism, resulting in salvation. In the second case the order would be faith, resulting in salvation, followed by baptism. 'Verses seem to support both sides. In Acts 2:38 we read, "And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'" If the repentant believer is baptized "for the forgiveness of sins," then repentance and belief are not enough. The order here appears to be faith, then baptism, resulting in salvation. 'This verse seems very straightforward. To some, simply quoting it is enough. The problem comes when one flips over a few pages to Acts 10:44-48. (...) 'Notice what's happening. Peter preaches the Gospel to Cornelius and his household. In the midst of Peter's sermon, the Holy Spirit falls on those listening and they manifest spiritual gifts. 'This is irrefutable evidence to Peter that these Gentiles have "received the Holy Spirit just as [he] did." Other verses make it clear that possessing the Holy Spirit in the New Testament sense is proof of salvation (see Ephesians 1:13-14 and Romans 8:9). 'After these Gentiles are regenerated, Peter announces it is appropriate for them to be baptized. The order in Acts 10 is faith, resulting in salvation, followed by baptism. 'Here's the problem. Apparently Acts 2 teaches that salvation comes after water baptism, and Acts 10 indicates it can come before. This is a contradiction. Unless these passages are harmonized, merely asserting one verse against another actually does violence to the authority of God's Word. 'This is when we must ask our question: Are either of the passages equivocal? That is, are there any legitimate alternative readings? 'The Acts 10 passage seems completely inflexible in its meaning. The sequence of events leaves no question (though I'm open to suggestions) that the order is faith/regeneration/baptism. Peter's response is unmistakable. 'Further, when the Jews later take issue with Peter about his involvement with Gentiles, he simply recounted the event and they were satisfied (Acts 11:1-18). In this passage regeneration clearly follows faith, not baptism: 'If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:17-18) 'Notice baptism isn't even mentioned here, only the salient details of regeneration: repentance, faith, and salvation. By all appearances, Acts 10 is unequivocal. Baptism isn't necessary for salvation. 'What about in Acts 2? Is it possible this passage means something different than it appears to at first? On closer inspection the answer is yes. The key is in the grammar. 'In Acts 2, the command to repent is in the plural, as is the reference to those who receive the forgiveness of sins (i.e., "All of you repent so all of you can receive forgiveness"). The command to be baptized, however, is in the singular (i.e., "Each of you should be baptized"). 'This makes it clear that repentance, not baptism, leads to salvation, since an individual's baptism cannot cause the salvation of the entire group. Individual (singular) baptisms do not result in corporate (plural) salvation. 'As it turns out, then, the phrase "for the forgiveness of sins" modifies repentance, not baptism. A more precise rendering might be, "Let all of you repent so all of you can receive forgiveness, and then each who has should be baptized." 'If there is any question about which translation of Acts 2:38 is appropriate, Acts 10 and 11 give us the answer. Clearly, Peter's Gentiles were not getting baptized in order to bring about their salvation. They were baptized as a result of salvation. The clear (unequivocal) teaching in Acts 10 and 11 informs the ambiguous (equivocal) nature of Acts 2:38.' ____________________ To read the entire article, go to: (http://www.str.org/free/solid_ground/SG9909.htm) |
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2 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133381 | ||
I must admit, at first glance your post seems to be well written and appears quite logical but there's a big flaw in the logic. For some strange reason there seems to be a growing tendancy to question the fact of the Apostles being baptized when the Scriptures don't address that issue EXCEPT for this one instance. Acts 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank. 10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." 11 And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight." 13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name." 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19 and he took food and was strengthened. Now for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus, You might notice that here Paul is baptized in a hurry (like the Phillipian jailer) as he does so before he eats a meal after 3 days of fasting. If baptism wasn't required for salvation, don't you think he could have waited? Similar to the jailer, if baptism isn't important, he could have waited till daybreak especially since he placed a high priority on tending to the ex-prisoner's wounds. You see, the whole logic of your article falls apart. The Bible simply doesn't address the issue of the other Apostles getting baptized at all, only Saul, later Apostle Paul. But throughout the Bible, I can see there are a few minor places where the emphasis isn't quite as plain as in Acts 2:38 so ultimately a person is faced with a quandry in his lap. 1) Should I be conservative, play it safe and be baptized to have my sins forgiven as cited in Acts 2:38 OR 2) Should I take a chance, take my salvation for granted like others do and get baptized at a later date? I've said this many times now and will repeat myself again and again as needed. When the Bible places these kind of options in front of us in response to this issues, I'll always recommend the "better safe than sorry" approach as endorsed by our Lord with his parable about cutting off a hand or gouging out an eye. Why take a chance with a controversial handful of verses when they ARE very definitely some few verses that clearly depict what I'm saying to be true. It's also in keeping with the practice of circumcision. A convert to Judiasm was NOT considered a Jew until AFTER the circumcision and we both know how our God truly is a bloody God. And since the Bible doesn't say one or the other about the Apostles, it's safe to say they were baptized before receiving salvation, since they would want to be consistent with what they were preaching. I do hope you'll keep studying and praying on this subject. God bless. Rowdy |
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3 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | BradK | 133384 | ||
Rowdy, It is not my attempt to argue your point on this matter. You appear to be saying something scripture doesn't say by your "better safe than sorry" approach as endorsed by our Lord with his parable about cutting off a hand or gouging out an eye". The context (in Matt 5:29-30) is dealing with personal relationships and specifically adultery. Where does Christ "endorse" this better-safe-than-sorry approach? I don't see baptism at issue here. Lastly, what of Galatians 5:2, "Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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4 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Hank | 133393 | ||
Hi, Brad. Of course, you do realize I suppose that you you're not reading between the lines of Scripture; that's where the fine print is :-) For instance, when Paul told the Ephesians (2:8 NASB) that they had been saved by grace through faith, the FINE PRINT (really, really fine print) adds, "but get yourselves baptized in a hurry, because it's better to be safe than sorry." (Ephesians 2:8 RV, i.e., Rowdy Version). ...... And again, in Acts 16:30,31, Paul and Silas, in answer to the Philippian jailer's question, 'What must I do to be saved?' told him to believe in the Lord Jesus and he would be saved. But they of course added (see the fine print!) "But get baptized too, because we always teach that it's better to be safe than sorry." And Paul and Silas explained to the jailer, "You see, buddy, we're not certain of what a man must do to be saved, so we always recommend baptism and throw in good works theology along with it -- just to be on the safe side, you know. After all, the motto of our teaching -- and of all Scripture, for that matter -- is "It's better to be safe than sorry." --Hank | ||||||
5 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | BradK | 133395 | ||
Hank, Maybe I better get my glasses updated so I can "read in between the lines better":-) In understanding the Essential Doctrines of the Christian faith, I could have sworn that Salvation is by grace through faith (1 Tim. 1:9). Without any disrespect meant to our brother, but "better safe than sorry" is NOT an essential doctrine, teaching, etc. Its' my belief that God said what He meant, and meant what He said- in no uncertain terms! Such a statement conveys a wishy-washy faith! I want no part of that, sorry. "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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6 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133428 | ||
If you boys are finished playing, it's time to come back into school and do your homework. I'd be interested in your more thorough response to the flawed logic I identified in Kalos' article. Why don't you and Hank both take a chop at explaining why Saul and the Phillipian jailer were baptized in such a hurry? Can you quote me a verse that cites "faith only" does in fact get you salvation? That's why a person has to study ALL of what the Bible says on a particular subject, in this case salvation or being saved from our sins. Next, please explain to me exactly what was Jesus saying in his parable about chopping off hands and gouging out eyeballs? Why don't we see lots of christians without these body parts since we're all still sinners? Please explain. Thanks. God bless all of you. Rowdy PS: ANYONE doing a thorough study of my posts on this Forum would have to conclude I believe very strongly AGAINST "wishy-washy faith." I do, however believe in studying ALL of God's Word and drawing the proper conclusions that He wants drawn from His Words. I challenge you to do the homework and respond to my points cited above. Thanks. |
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7 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 133432 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! You wrote: "Can you quote me a verse that cites "faith only" does in fact get you salvation?" This is a simple request my friend! :-) Before I begin listing them, I want to make sure that you are aware that the verbal form of 'faith' is 'believe'. So, here goes: 1) Acts 16:31 - "They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.'" 2) John 1:12 - "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—" 3) John 3:15 - "that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." 4) John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 5) John 3:18 - "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." 6) John 3:36 - "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him." 7) John 5:24 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." 8) John 6:40 - "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." 9) John 6:47 - "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." 10) John 11:25 - "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?'" 11) John 20:31 - " But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." 12) Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." 13) Acts 13:39 - "Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." 14) Rom. 1:16 - "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." 15) Rom. 3:22 - "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference," 16) Rom. 4:24 - "but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." 17) Rom. 10:4 - "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. " 18) 1 Cor. 1:21 - "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 19) Eph. 1:13 - "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," 20) 1 Tim. 1:16 - "But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life." 21) 1 Tim. 4:10 - "(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." 22) Heb. 4:3a - "Now we who have believed enter that rest,..." 23) Heb. 10:39 - "But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." 24) 1 John 5:1 - "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. " Here are 24 verses that say that those who 'believe' are saved. Notice the conspicuous absence of any other qualification! ;-) As to your first questiona about the jailer, he was baptized because we are commanded as Christians to be baptized. No one is arguing that we should not be baptized, or that we should not be timely about it. I had the privilege of seeing a young man come to Christ in the dead of winter once. He wanted to be baptized that very night. So, we broke the ice on a member's swimming pool and baptized him that very night. But, he was saved long before he got into that water! Scripture is clear that we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9)! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133442 | ||
I appreciate your contribution to this discussion and looking forward to others' participation. But you didn't cite any verses that either say "believe only" or teach such a concept. Please cite such a verse if you can. Also, I'd love to see your response to my challenge to BradK about the connection between these processes of getting into God's family 1) the Jewish family or Isrealites during the OT era and 2) the christian family under the Headship of Jesus Christ. Specifically, I'm comparing the process by which a foreigner was allowed into these two fellowships. In the former, the process was consumated with circumcision before which a man was NOT considered part of the family. In the latter, the process of Plan of Salvation if you prefer is consumated with baptism as shown throughout the Book of Acts. By the way, I agree that we are INDEED saved by Grace through our faith as you've cited in Eph 8. Part of that faith process involves total submission to Christ's Terms and Conditions as cited throughout the 87 verses on this subject of baptism. You see, our God really requires a lot more than just belief for the devil believes. So, apparently it's NOT all that big a deal to believe in God or His Son. The big difference that both God and His Son want to see is how we respond to our belief. That's one reason why Christ says Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Looking forward to your reply. God bless. Rowdy |
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9 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 133450 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! You asked for one, I gave you 24! Which of these verses listed any requirement other than faith? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133460 | ||
I can only put it to you like it was put to me as a student. The single one place in the Bible where it discusses faith alone is in James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Now I'd be the last person in the world to propose that we can earn our way to Heaven BUT as I've stated plainly there's simply no way a person can prove that one can go to Heaven by simply BELIEVING in God and not prove it. God is going to be looking for His Seal of Approval, Proof that we really have taken on the Lord, His Son in baptism. Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, I may not quote 24 verses to counter your 24 but all I need is one as that's all that God will need on Judgment Day. So why don't you tell me. Since we could quote scriptures to each other all day, what are we going to do? Which side of this controversial fence would you want to take a chance and make a mistake since there's so many verses on this subject? You see, the negative side of the two verses above would be rendered as follows: For as many of you as have NOT been baptized into Christ have NOT put on Christ. In Him you were NOT circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by NOT putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by NOT being circumcised of Christ, I haven't done it yet but I'd like to think a similar action could be done to the 85 other verses that talk about baptism. Insert the word NOT into those respective verses and see if it makes sense with the end result of salvation. It seems impossible that it would. Now, of course the negative of your 24 verses would also be true. If a person does NOT believe, of course he's NOT going to be baptised or even be interested in being saved. So what is the more conservative or safer position to take with you to Judgment Day? I noticed you didn't address the fact that the devil believes in God and yet it's clear and plain that he's not going to Heaven. How do you plan to distinguish yourself from the devil on Judgment Day? I do hope you can see the logic in all this. God bless. Rowdy |
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11 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | srbaegon | 133464 | ||
Hello Rowdy, Nowhere in Scripture do we find that baptism is "God's seal of approval" either. Those are your words. You place a great deal of emphasis taking the safe route. Do you also keep the Law and carry a rabbit's foot for good measure? In the final analysis, that's how little you esteem the abundant grace of God. Steve |
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12 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133475 | ||
I'm sorry, I should have referred you to the post wherein I cited the following verse Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Like I alluded to in an earlier post, circumcision was the seal of God's approval adding a foreign Gentile to the Jewish family. This verse above makes it pretty clear that the modern seal for christians is baptism. It's the act of total obedience, indicating total submission of our will to God's Will, just like circumcision was for those folks in the OT, especially for grown men. Our wisdom is submitted to His Wisdom. 1 Cor 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Also 1 Pet 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Just what do you think is the antitype that Peter is referring to? What else could it possibly be? How can you ignore the power of 87 verses, mentioning baptism in the NT that together as a whole is far more powerful than the 70 times repentance is mentioned throughout the whole Bible? So what basic principle would you call when Jesus was illustrating with his discussion of chopping off hands and gouging out eyeballs? Why are there not thousands or millions of christians walking around missing body parts? Please advise. "In the true final analysis," on Judgment Day, I want to be one of those hearing "Well done good and faithful servant." Better than that, I want to be certain so I don't trust rabbit's feet or any other superstition. I put ALL of my trust in God's Word, ALL of His Word. That's how much I esteem the Grace of God. How about you? Which portion of God's Word are you obeying? God bless. Rowdy |
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13 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | srbaegon | 133480 | ||
Hello Rowdy, "Like I alluded to in an earlier post, circumcision was the seal of God's approval adding a foreign Gentile to the Jewish family." No, it's not. God's seal of approval is his presence. We see that in vividly pictured with Israel. As long as God was dwelling with them, they had blessing or a chance of recovery after sinning. Finally, God removed his presence as written in Ezekiel, and the people went into captivity. It's the same way with Christians. God's presence is with us in the Holy Spirit. He seals, baptizes, indwells, and fills us. Jesus promised to be with us always. The Father is with us as well. That's the seal of approval. "It's the act of total obedience, indicating total submission of our will to God's Will, just like circumcision was for those folks in the OT, especially for grown men." Which is why an entire generation of circumcised men died in the wilderness--because of their total obedience to God. I don't think so. Circumcision was the sign of the covenant--nothing more (Gen 17:10-14). Steve |
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14 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | following him | 133482 | ||
Hello Steve: You are absolutley right about circumcision being the sign of the covenant. What's more is that it was a sign of God's faithful to Abraham not Abraham's faithfulness to God. Gen 17:7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you." Circumcision was what God gave Abraham to do as acknowledgement of God's covenant with him. Gen 17:11 "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you." But Abraham's righteousness was established long before this and it was based off his faith in God not the circumcision. See Gen 15:1-6 Blessing to you Aaron |
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