Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 'I AM' or 'I exist'? | John 8:58 | fellow worker | 145268 | ||
After citing numerous examples regarding the root word harpazo at Phil 2:6, BeDuhn writes: "There is not a single word derived from harpazo that is used to suggest holding on to something already possessed." Showing that the translators are biased by examples he goes on: "You can see that the word has connotations of seizing something violently or unjustly. The NW translators understood harpagmos accurately as grasping at something one does not have, that is, a "seizure." Christ did not even think of grabbing at equality with God." In one of the few times that he offers possible interpretation, he links this truth with Paul's view of Christ as the second Adam. (1 Cor 15:45) Unlike Adam who did try to seize equality with God, the ability to decide good and bad, Jesus was humble and set the example for us. My how accurate translation can assist in interpretation! |
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2 | 'I AM' or 'I exist'? | John 8:58 | Morant61 | 145276 | ||
Greetings Ben! First of all, I note that you ignored my question about Jehovah's statements in Isaiah. Secondly, BeDuhn's translation of Phil. 2:6 would make no sense at all. Notice what the verse says, "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," The verse begins with an affirmation that Jesus already possed the nature of God. It then progresses on to His becoming a man. No matter how one tries to twist 'harpazmo', the first clause makes it clear that the 'equality' with God was already His. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | 'I AM' or 'I exist'? | John 8:58 | fellow worker | 145331 | ||
Tim: The literal translation is "in the form of God." Your references to Isaiah are convoluted and I've seen this attempt to entrap those who view Jehovah as the only God and Jesus as his firstborn Son. The answer again is found in the Bible. Jehovah himself had called Moses "god" if not "God" to Pharaoh and Aaron. I've cited Jesus and Paul's quotes as well already. Isaiah's quote is obviously referring to any other "true God." (See Jesus' prayer at John 17:3) Notice how biased translations always get the capitalization exactly backwards! Coincidence? Jason and millions more think not. Don'taccuse the NW of twisting 'harpazmo.' That's a boldface falsehood. |
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4 | 'I AM' or 'I exist'? | John 8:58 | Morant61 | 145334 | ||
Greetings Ben! Convoluted? How is it convoluted to simply cite a reference my friend? You attempt to ignore what Jehovah says by adding a word not found in the text. Where does Isaiah say anything about no other 'true' god? For instance, Is. 43:10 says, "'You are my witnesses,' declares the LORD, 'and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." If Jesus is simply 'another' god, then when was He formed, since Jehovah says that no other god was formed before or after Him? I find it highly ironic that the so called Jehovah's Witnesses proclaim what Jehovah Himself denied - that there is more than one god. Finally, let's look at the NWT's version of Phil. 2:6: "who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely that he should be equal to God." There are several problems with this "translation". First of all, it does not fit the context. The context deals with Jesus 'emptying' Himself and becoming less than He was before the incarnation. The NWT's "translation" makes the verse say that Jesus was 'less' than God but stayed 'less' than God. :-( Secondly, how can someone be in the 'form' of God and not BE God? Finally, the NWT 'translation' is totally deceptive when it adds 'that he should be' to the last clause. Even if one accepts the translation of 'harpagmos' by the NWT, the final clause in the Greek says 'to be equal with God' not 'that he should be equal with God'. Thus, the last clause is stating His equality with God, as does the first clause! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | 'I AM' or 'I exist'? | John 8:58 | fellow worker | 145428 | ||
"I find it highly ironic that the so called Jehovah's Witnesses proclaim what Jehovah Himself denied - that there is more than one god." Is the apostle Paul one of Jehovah's Witnesses? According to you - Yes! For he claims: "(There is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6) Please address the passages I referenced at Exodus 4:16 and 7:1. I was indulgent enough to respond to your request. |
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6 | Is Jehovah lying? | John 8:58 | Morant61 | 145448 | ||
Greetings Ben! Thanks for the response my friend! I assume that you would agree that the following two statements cannot both be true in the same way: 1) There are no other gods. 2) There are other gods. So, how would you reconcile the statements of Jehovah and the statement of Paul. Simple - Jehovah is speaking of actual gods, while Paul is speaking of things that are only 'called' gods. There is a major difference. I could take a hunk of wood, and carve an idol out of it and call it my god. However, it would not really be a god, would it? It would still just be a hunk of wood. Notice that Paul's comments are in full agreement with this point. He says (in your version) that there are "those who are called 'gods'", but that doesn't make them gods in fact. In fact, didn't you read the very first part of Paul's statement? "There is no God but one"! Is. 37:19 also makes this point: "They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands." Both times that the word 'gods' appears in this verse it is the Hebrew word 'elohim'. Notice that the first occurance speaks of their 'gods', but the second occurance denies that there were actually 'gods'. Ex. 4:16 is an easy verse to explain. "He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him." Jehovah is simply making an analogy. Moses would speak to Aaron in the same way that God speaks to Moses. Notice the words 'as if'. Jehovah is not saying that Moses IS A GOD! :-) Exodus 7:1 is the same sort of statement: "Then the LORD said to Moses, 'See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.'" However, Is. 43:10 is an example of an unqualified direct statement by Jehovah: "'You are my witnesses,' declares the LORD, 'and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.'" So, how do you reconcile this statement of Jehovah with the teachings of the JW's? How can Jesus be 'a god', if Jehovah Himself says that there is no other gods - either before or after Him? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Is Jehovah lying? | John 8:58 | fellow worker | 145483 | ||
Tim: You have quoted an interpretation, not a translation. The words "as if" and "like" are not in the original Hebrew. You may reason that this is what God meant, but it is not what the inspired writings actually say. Jesus says at John 10:34,35: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said: "You are gods:'? Your buddy Ray said of John 17:3 that "of the one" should read "of the One." Why not read Isaiah 43:10 as "no God formed." This is what I understand. Sure there are those called gods, but no one can claim to be God except Jehovah. If you realized that according to the original Greek at Col 1:15, Jesus is part of God's creation, we would not be having this discussion. I suggest you read BeDuhn's research on this verse as well. |
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8 | But what did Jehovah say? | John 8:58 | Morant61 | 145492 | ||
Greetings Ben! To a certain degree, every translation is an interpretation! :-) You accuse me of relying upon an interpretation, not a translation, yet you want to 'add' a distinction that does not exist in Hebrew or Greek. There is no distinction between 'God' and 'god' in either language. So, Jehovah does not say in Is. 43:10 that there is no other 'God' formed but Him. He says that there is no other 'elohim' but Him. So, the question still stands my friend! Was Jehovah wrong? If you really want to be a witness for Jehovah, then it is essential that you proclaim what He actually said my friend. He explicilty said that there are no other 'elohim'. Therefore, Jesus cannot be a 'god' other than Jehovah. He must be Jehovah. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | But what did Jehovah say? | John 8:58 | Morant61 | 145533 | ||
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