Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185787 | ||
Hi stj, Without question, this passage is one of the more difficult in the NT to understand. There a basically 4 commonly held views (noted by Hard Sayings of the Bible): 1. Water means natural birth and Spirit indicates spiritual birth. 2. Water and Spirit together indicate a cleansing and spiritual renewal. 3. Water is the baptism of John and Spirit is what comes with Jesus. 4. Water indicates the outward part of Christian baptism and Spirit the inward part. I would be more inclined to agree with view 1 as it seems to fit a more plain, straight-forward interpretation. With no malice intended, I think it far more of a stretch to accept your "opinion" that water refers to the Word. The basic reasons being, the context doesn't seem to warrant it and we have Jesus saying water when He (really) meant Word. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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2 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185788 | ||
Hi BK. OK. Then what does He mean by the water in this verse. V, 13-14 Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. Is this the water of natural birth or spiritual birth? And It seems like He's could be talking about drinking water to one without discernment. So, I'm not sure your view holds water. Pardon my pun. ;-) God bless, John |
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3 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185791 | ||
Hi stj, As I clearly noted, this is a difficult NT passage- at best! With all due respect, it is not my view that doesn't hold water. Since you are the one espousing your "opinion" the burden of proof is on you, to establish its' credibilty. Fair enough? The word for water- hudatos (Gr.)-generally translates as that. A.T Robertson, the late noted NT Greek scholar comments thus: "Of water and the Spirit [ex hudatos kai pneumatos]). Nicodemus had failed utterly to grasp the idea of the spiritual birth as essential to entrance into the Kingdom of God. He knew only Jews as members of that kingdom, the political kingdom of Pharisaic hope which was to make all the world Jewish (Pharisaic) under the King Messiah. Why does Jesus add [ex hudatos] here? In verse 3 we have anôthen]” (from above) which is repeated in verse 7, while in verse 8 we have only [ek tou pneumatos] (of the Spirit) in the best manuscripts. Many theories exist. One view makes baptism, referred to by [ex hudatos] (coming up out of water), essential to the birth of the Spirit, as the means of obtaining the new birth of the Spirit. If so, why is water mentioned only once in the three demands of Jesus (3, 5, 7)? Calvin makes water and Spirit refer to the one act (the cleansing work of the Spirit). Some insist on the language in verse 6 as meaning the birth of the flesh coming in a sac of water in contrast to the birth of the Spirit. One wonders after all what was the precise purpose of Jesus with Nicodemus, the Pharisaic ceremonialist, who had failed to grasp the idea of spiritual birth which is a commonplace to us. By using water (the symbol before the thing signified) first and adding Spirit, he may have hoped to turn the mind of Nicodemus away from mere physical birth and, by pointing to the baptism of John on confession of sin which the Pharisees had rejected, to turn his attention to the birth from above by the Spirit. That is to say the mention of “water” here may have been for the purpose of helping Nicodemus without laying down a fundamental principle of salvation as being by means of baptism. Bernard holds that the words [hudatos kai] (water and) do not belong to the words of Jesus, but “are a gloss, added to bring the saying of Jesus into harmony with the belief and practice of a later generation.” Here Jesus uses [eiselthein] (enter) instead of [idein] (see) of verse 3, but with the same essential idea (participation in the kingdom)." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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4 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185797 | ||
Hi BradK. Just adding a little levity, really I hope you know me well enough that I am not intending any malice ether my friend. Sorry. And speaking what I believe to be true is no burden, and really not difficult at all. Personally I think that the view that Jesus was referring to the amnionic fluid of natural birth is not really all that good because its really to much of a no brainer. Of course he would have to be fiscally born or he wouldn't be standing there talking to Him. And (we) know, that we have to be born fiscally to get reborn spiritually. And may I say, I don't think that is something Jesus needs to teach us. Its just to obvious. And, may I say that there are literally billions of people born that don't get born again. Lets look at the list again please. 1. Water means natural birth and Spirit indicates spiritual birth. 2. Water and Spirit together indicate a cleansing and spiritual renewal. 3. Water is the baptism of John and Spirit is what comes with Jesus. 4. Water indicates the outward part of Christian baptism and Spirit the inward part. OK. you already know I don't hold to number 1. and 3 and 4 both refer to baptism. And we know that water baptism is not essential to being born again. So. that leaves number 2. And the water indicates to me the spiritual cleansing we get from the Word. So. one three and four, are out the door. Sorry :-) And, I am not as I have said before dogmatic about this. I really just don't see this, as a hard thing to understand. Thanks for all the info brother, But its not going to change my mind. (alleged mind that is) ;-) God bless Brother BradK. John |
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5 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185801 | ||
Hi stj, Thanks for the clarification and the spirit in which it was said:-) I was really just challenging your "opinion" by responding to you. As you may know, on the SBF opinions, assumptions, speculations, and conjecture carry very little if any weight! I'm sure you'd agree, we always need to be careful in this area. I also am very leery of any novel interpretation- especially of difficult passages. I too would probably opt with number 2. However, any inference to the Word would not be direct, but indirect. I simply thought you were reading something into the text that isn't there:-) Again, clarification always helps in bringing about true communication. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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6 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185804 | ||
A hearty thank you BradK!! And may I say that I really enjoy having discussions with you, and appreciate your input to the forum. I have learned much from reading your posts! And can fully understand your scrutiny of novel aproches to interpiting scripture 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Bless you brother. John |
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