Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | Daily Bread | 185779 | ||
I came across Paul C Jong he was talking about being born of water and spirit. I read about half of his e-book he kept refering to being born of water and spirit he also put a lot of emphases on John the Baptist I would love any feed back. Thanks, Daily Bread |
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2 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185780 | ||
Hello Daily... I am not familiar with that book but hear is something to ponder. I believe that Jesus is referring to the Word, when he is speaking of water. How Indeed can one be born again of the Spirit, without first hearing the Word? They must go together. And when we read carefully, we can see that they are indeed joined together, and, (although they are two different things, they are part of the same package, so to speak.) John 3, verse 5, Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth no one can enter the Kingdom of God Unless he is born of Water and the Spirit. Note that He does not say Born of Water and (of) the Spirit, But, He links them together, "Water and the Spirit," Now if I may we'll look at v 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, But the Spirit gives birth to spirit. I know that may look like Our Lord is explaining that the water he is referring to is natural birth, but frankly I think that is kind of a stretch. I have heard this explanation for the water referring to natural birth, and think it is a good one. However, consider this. To be saved, we must first hear the Word, faith comes by hearing. The water is the Word that washes us clean. Faith we know is a gift, but that gift cannot be received without first hearing the Word/Water. Then by the gift of faith after hearing the Word/Water, we can receive God's Spirit and be Born again. That is why our Lord said. Born of water and of Spirit. John 4:10 "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he and would have given you living water." The Word of God is often referred to as living water. V, 13-14 Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." These verses and the revelation of the meaning of the water in John 3, have given me a thirst. But not a thirst for drinking liquid water, but a thirst for reading God's Word/Water. I am in no way dogmatic about this. Just an opinion. God bless. John |
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3 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185787 | ||
Hi stj, Without question, this passage is one of the more difficult in the NT to understand. There a basically 4 commonly held views (noted by Hard Sayings of the Bible): 1. Water means natural birth and Spirit indicates spiritual birth. 2. Water and Spirit together indicate a cleansing and spiritual renewal. 3. Water is the baptism of John and Spirit is what comes with Jesus. 4. Water indicates the outward part of Christian baptism and Spirit the inward part. I would be more inclined to agree with view 1 as it seems to fit a more plain, straight-forward interpretation. With no malice intended, I think it far more of a stretch to accept your "opinion" that water refers to the Word. The basic reasons being, the context doesn't seem to warrant it and we have Jesus saying water when He (really) meant Word. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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4 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185788 | ||
Hi BK. OK. Then what does He mean by the water in this verse. V, 13-14 Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. Is this the water of natural birth or spiritual birth? And It seems like He's could be talking about drinking water to one without discernment. So, I'm not sure your view holds water. Pardon my pun. ;-) God bless, John |
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5 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185791 | ||
Hi stj, As I clearly noted, this is a difficult NT passage- at best! With all due respect, it is not my view that doesn't hold water. Since you are the one espousing your "opinion" the burden of proof is on you, to establish its' credibilty. Fair enough? The word for water- hudatos (Gr.)-generally translates as that. A.T Robertson, the late noted NT Greek scholar comments thus: "Of water and the Spirit [ex hudatos kai pneumatos]). Nicodemus had failed utterly to grasp the idea of the spiritual birth as essential to entrance into the Kingdom of God. He knew only Jews as members of that kingdom, the political kingdom of Pharisaic hope which was to make all the world Jewish (Pharisaic) under the King Messiah. Why does Jesus add [ex hudatos] here? In verse 3 we have anôthen]” (from above) which is repeated in verse 7, while in verse 8 we have only [ek tou pneumatos] (of the Spirit) in the best manuscripts. Many theories exist. One view makes baptism, referred to by [ex hudatos] (coming up out of water), essential to the birth of the Spirit, as the means of obtaining the new birth of the Spirit. If so, why is water mentioned only once in the three demands of Jesus (3, 5, 7)? Calvin makes water and Spirit refer to the one act (the cleansing work of the Spirit). Some insist on the language in verse 6 as meaning the birth of the flesh coming in a sac of water in contrast to the birth of the Spirit. One wonders after all what was the precise purpose of Jesus with Nicodemus, the Pharisaic ceremonialist, who had failed to grasp the idea of spiritual birth which is a commonplace to us. By using water (the symbol before the thing signified) first and adding Spirit, he may have hoped to turn the mind of Nicodemus away from mere physical birth and, by pointing to the baptism of John on confession of sin which the Pharisees had rejected, to turn his attention to the birth from above by the Spirit. That is to say the mention of “water” here may have been for the purpose of helping Nicodemus without laying down a fundamental principle of salvation as being by means of baptism. Bernard holds that the words [hudatos kai] (water and) do not belong to the words of Jesus, but “are a gloss, added to bring the saying of Jesus into harmony with the belief and practice of a later generation.” Here Jesus uses [eiselthein] (enter) instead of [idein] (see) of verse 3, but with the same essential idea (participation in the kingdom)." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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6 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185797 | ||
Hi BradK. Just adding a little levity, really I hope you know me well enough that I am not intending any malice ether my friend. Sorry. And speaking what I believe to be true is no burden, and really not difficult at all. Personally I think that the view that Jesus was referring to the amnionic fluid of natural birth is not really all that good because its really to much of a no brainer. Of course he would have to be fiscally born or he wouldn't be standing there talking to Him. And (we) know, that we have to be born fiscally to get reborn spiritually. And may I say, I don't think that is something Jesus needs to teach us. Its just to obvious. And, may I say that there are literally billions of people born that don't get born again. Lets look at the list again please. 1. Water means natural birth and Spirit indicates spiritual birth. 2. Water and Spirit together indicate a cleansing and spiritual renewal. 3. Water is the baptism of John and Spirit is what comes with Jesus. 4. Water indicates the outward part of Christian baptism and Spirit the inward part. OK. you already know I don't hold to number 1. and 3 and 4 both refer to baptism. And we know that water baptism is not essential to being born again. So. that leaves number 2. And the water indicates to me the spiritual cleansing we get from the Word. So. one three and four, are out the door. Sorry :-) And, I am not as I have said before dogmatic about this. I really just don't see this, as a hard thing to understand. Thanks for all the info brother, But its not going to change my mind. (alleged mind that is) ;-) God bless Brother BradK. John |
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7 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | BradK | 185801 | ||
Hi stj, Thanks for the clarification and the spirit in which it was said:-) I was really just challenging your "opinion" by responding to you. As you may know, on the SBF opinions, assumptions, speculations, and conjecture carry very little if any weight! I'm sure you'd agree, we always need to be careful in this area. I also am very leery of any novel interpretation- especially of difficult passages. I too would probably opt with number 2. However, any inference to the Word would not be direct, but indirect. I simply thought you were reading something into the text that isn't there:-) Again, clarification always helps in bringing about true communication. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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8 | You have to be born of water and spirit | John 3:5 | stjohn | 185804 | ||
A hearty thank you BradK!! And may I say that I really enjoy having discussions with you, and appreciate your input to the forum. I have learned much from reading your posts! And can fully understand your scrutiny of novel aproches to interpiting scripture 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Bless you brother. John |
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